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Isn't everything that's happening with Reddit ultimately because of the pursuit of profits above all else? For me that's as capitalistic as it gets. It's the

Isn't everything that's happening with Reddit ultimately because of the pursuit of profits above all else? For me that's as capitalistic as it gets. It's the same frame of thought geared towards employees.

irthomasthomas 3y ago
That's the official Reddit narrative. Do you still believe the official Reddit narrative? If it was true that they just wanted to make money from the API, then they would have responded to those developers who agreed to the price hike and asked to join the new API program. Instead of ignoring them for two weeks out of the four weeks notice that they gave.
- Draiken 3y ago
  Not sure I'm following here. I can't really think of another motive for doing what they are doing. It's an attempt of a pump before dumping it in the public markets. What else could it be?
  - irthomasthomas 3y ago
    Don't know, but there are more points to the compass than profit and loss. It's not hard for me to imagine that a site like Reddit, with a billion engaged and trusting users could add value to the companies that control it, without it being a profit centre directly. And I added an edit to point out that if the profit motive was true, they would have accepted the money offered by the API users who agreed to the price hike. They went ignored for two out of the four weeks notice Reddit gave.
    - Draiken 3y ago
      I see your point now, but I disagree. Yes, signing a few API users would "increase profit" but not as much as the profit they can (or perceive they can) generate by having control over their platform/clients. With control they can employ whatever dark patterns they want to extract as much value as they can from ads. Some suggest ads by API but still that's nowhere near the same type of control/guarantee. Ultimately this even strengthens my point. They want profits above all else. They are choosing the highest potential profit over the less profitable API deal that could be a nice middle ground. In capitalism it doesn't matter if a better alternative costs a single cent more. If there is a choice, it will be to save that cent.
AnonCoward42 3y ago
It's the capitalism cliché, but it is not the capitalism. Even if you only seek profits, it's not necessarily in their interest to get tunnel-vision and seek short-term profits. Depending on how it proceeds this might be a lesson in how capitalism actually eliminates this very behavior/cliché. We're going to see. Disclaimer: I am all for criticizing capitalism, but using the cliché is not well argued imo.
- Draiken 3y ago
  Being a cliché or not doesn't make it untrue. It's not a novel argument but it's still absolutely relevant. Saying it's not "the capitalism" is a bit of a true scotsman argument. There is only really one capitalism: the one we're living in today. There's no other version of this as far as I can tell. Maybe before we had different variations of it but with globalization, it's one to rule them all. > it's not necessarily in their interest to get tunnel-vision and seek short-term profits I wish I shared your hopeful vision because looking at history and current affairs, there's no indication that short term gains are ever going to be replaced by long term ones. The climate change issue is the prime example for that. Everyone knows long term it's bad, but who cares? We need those stocks to go up! [1] [1]: https://www.derekchristensen.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/shareholdervalue.jpg https://www.derekchristensen.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/...
  - AnonCoward42 3y ago
    > Saying it's not "the capitalism" is a bit of a true scotsman argument. The statement I answered was making the worst case the norm. That's why I said that it is not representative for capitalism ("not the capitalism"). Short-term-profiteering is just a part of it - that is usually eliminated, if that's all that is to it. > I wish I shared your hopeful vision because looking at history and current affairs, there's no indication that short term gains are ever going to be replaced by long term ones. The climate change issue is the prime example for that. Everyone knows long term it's bad, but who cares? We need those stocks to go up! Now you're shifting the goal post. I specifically speak about profit not about some other arbitrary goal. Capitalism (like any economical system) isn't going to magically fix everything (i.e. climate). edit: clarify

irthomasthomas 3y ago

That's the official Reddit narrative. Do you still believe the official Reddit narrative? If it was true that they just wanted to make money from the API, then they would have responded to those developers who agreed to the price hike and asked to join the new API program. Instead of ignoring them for two weeks out of the four weeks notice that they gave.

Draiken 3y ago
Not sure I'm following here. I can't really think of another motive for doing what they are doing. It's an attempt of a pump before dumping it in the public markets. What else could it be?
- irthomasthomas 3y ago
  Don't know, but there are more points to the compass than profit and loss. It's not hard for me to imagine that a site like Reddit, with a billion engaged and trusting users could add value to the companies that control it, without it being a profit centre directly. And I added an edit to point out that if the profit motive was true, they would have accepted the money offered by the API users who agreed to the price hike. They went ignored for two out of the four weeks notice Reddit gave.
  - Draiken 3y ago
    I see your point now, but I disagree. Yes, signing a few API users would "increase profit" but not as much as the profit they can (or perceive they can) generate by having control over their platform/clients. With control they can employ whatever dark patterns they want to extract as much value as they can from ads. Some suggest ads by API but still that's nowhere near the same type of control/guarantee. Ultimately this even strengthens my point. They want profits above all else. They are choosing the highest potential profit over the less profitable API deal that could be a nice middle ground. In capitalism it doesn't matter if a better alternative costs a single cent more. If there is a choice, it will be to save that cent.

AnonCoward42 3y ago

It's the capitalism cliché, but it is not the capitalism. Even if you only seek profits, it's not necessarily in their interest to get tunnel-vision and seek short-term profits. Depending on how it proceeds this might be a lesson in how capitalism actually eliminates this very behavior/cliché. We're going to see. Disclaimer: I am all for criticizing capitalism, but using the cliché is not well argued imo.

Draiken 3y ago
Being a cliché or not doesn't make it untrue. It's not a novel argument but it's still absolutely relevant. Saying it's not "the capitalism" is a bit of a true scotsman argument. There is only really one capitalism: the one we're living in today. There's no other version of this as far as I can tell. Maybe before we had different variations of it but with globalization, it's one to rule them all. > it's not necessarily in their interest to get tunnel-vision and seek short-term profits I wish I shared your hopeful vision because looking at history and current affairs, there's no indication that short term gains are ever going to be replaced by long term ones. The climate change issue is the prime example for that. Everyone knows long term it's bad, but who cares? We need those stocks to go up! [1] [1]: https://www.derekchristensen.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/shareholdervalue.jpg https://www.derekchristensen.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/...
- AnonCoward42 3y ago
  > Saying it's not "the capitalism" is a bit of a true scotsman argument. The statement I answered was making the worst case the norm. That's why I said that it is not representative for capitalism ("not the capitalism"). Short-term-profiteering is just a part of it - that is usually eliminated, if that's all that is to it. > I wish I shared your hopeful vision because looking at history and current affairs, there's no indication that short term gains are ever going to be replaced by long term ones. The climate change issue is the prime example for that. Everyone knows long term it's bad, but who cares? We need those stocks to go up! Now you're shifting the goal post. I specifically speak about profit not about some other arbitrary goal. Capitalism (like any economical system) isn't going to magically fix everything (i.e. climate). edit: clarify