4 ms·

> > "“The problem is not simply fossil fuel emissions,” Guterres said, a nod to recent comments made by Sultan al-Jaber, the United Arab Emirates official who w

by ftxbro 3y ago

> > "“The problem is not simply fossil fuel emissions,” Guterres said, a nod to recent comments made by Sultan al-Jaber, the United Arab Emirates official who will lead the next U.N. climate summit. “It’s fossil fuels – period.”" > "The statement is incoherent. Why are fossil fuels, apart from their emissions, "a problem - period"?"" I was curious about this so I read the context. Your quote hints at the context as "a nod to recent comments made by Sultan al-Jaber, the United Arab Emirates official who will lead the next U.N. climate summit." Elsewhere in the AP article they explain the context in more detail: "Secretary-General António Guterres also dismissed suggestions by some oil executives - including the man tapped to chair this year’s international climate talks in Dubai - that fossil fuel firms can keep up production if they find a way to capture planet-warming carbon emissions." So with this context, it sounds like when it was suggested the fossil fuel industry burn less fuel, the fuel industry guy said something like 'ok but what if we burn the fuel and then capture the emissions :trollface:' and Guterres is calling them out on this incoherent troll suggestion. I mean if you know anything about physics or chemistry then you know that the suggestion is incoherent or deceptive like maybe at some point they plan to redefine emissions to not include carbon dioxide or some other scheme like that. It might seem like that fuel industry guy is just trolling or is ignorant of physics or chemistry when he says meaningless things like that, but the real effect is that it gives cover for people who defend the fossil fuel industry and to say that Guterres is the one making incoherent statements when you take parts of the conversation out of context. So it's not just a silly thing it's actually malicious.

SamPatt 3y ago
>it sounds like when it was suggested the fossil fuel industry burn less fuel... But the fossil fuel industry doesn't burn very much fuel at all. You (and everyone reading this) buy it and burn it because it makes your lives so much better. Or buy electricity or other things which burned the fuel to make them. >the real effect is that it gives cover for people who defend the fossil fuel industry Gives cover, what an interesting phrase. The context doesn't make the statement more coherent. Why are fossil fuels a problem absent the emissions? Resource scarcity and advancing technology have always led to changing energy sources and usage over time, no fear mongering about planetary extinction necessary.
- ftxbro 3y ago
  > "Why are fossil fuels a problem absent the emissions?" They aren't. The problem is that the fuel industry guy was suggesting to burn the fossil fuels and then recover every emission. That's not something that makes sense in chemistry or physics. So the industry guy was either stupid or he was lying. He's not that stupid, so he's obviously lying, and the UN guy knows he's lying. The UN guy tried to call out the fuel industry guy's lie by saying that the fossil fuels themselves were the problem. So now people are going on the internet and saying that the UN guy is stupid because he doesn't know that fossil fuels aren't a problem absent emissions. I guess that's a win for the fuel industry guy and it's why he gets paid the big bucks.
  - SamPatt 3y ago
    Uh... they're both from the UN. You can disagree with who the UN chooses but having representatives from countries and industries which are absolutely crucial for humanity's functioning seems like a good idea.
    - ftxbro 3y ago
      > "Uh... they're both from the UN." 'the UN guy' is the secretary-general of the United Nations, the chief administrative officer of the United Nations. 'the fuel industry guy' is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultan_Al_Jaber https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultan_Al_Jaber and he is described as "the Minister of Industry and Advanced Technology of the United Arab Emirates, managing director and group CEO of the Abu Dhabi National Oil Company (ADNOC Group), chairman of Masdar (the Abu Dhabi Future Energy Company), and the United Arab Emirates' special envoy for climate change. He is the President-Designate of the upcoming COP28 climate talks." > "You can disagree with who the UN chooses" OK but I wasn't doing that. Such defensiveness did catch my interest though, and I see there is a whole section on his wiki page including "A further Guardian investigation revealed in June 2023 that a large number of fake Twitter and Medium accounts, using stock or AI-generated profile images, have been either promoting and defending the hosting of the UN climate summit by the United Arab Emirates, including reposting UAE government tweets and trying to rebut criticism of Al Jaber's presidency."

by ftxbro 3y ago

SamPatt 3y ago

>it sounds like when it was suggested the fossil fuel industry burn less fuel... But the fossil fuel industry doesn't burn very much fuel at all. You (and everyone reading this) buy it and burn it because it makes your lives so much better. Or buy electricity or other things which burned the fuel to make them. >the real effect is that it gives cover for people who defend the fossil fuel industry Gives cover, what an interesting phrase. The context doesn't make the statement more coherent. Why are fossil fuels a problem absent the emissions? Resource scarcity and advancing technology have always led to changing energy sources and usage over time, no fear mongering about planetary extinction necessary.

ftxbro 3y ago
> "Why are fossil fuels a problem absent the emissions?" They aren't. The problem is that the fuel industry guy was suggesting to burn the fossil fuels and then recover every emission. That's not something that makes sense in chemistry or physics. So the industry guy was either stupid or he was lying. He's not that stupid, so he's obviously lying, and the UN guy knows he's lying. The UN guy tried to call out the fuel industry guy's lie by saying that the fossil fuels themselves were the problem. So now people are going on the internet and saying that the UN guy is stupid because he doesn't know that fossil fuels aren't a problem absent emissions. I guess that's a win for the fuel industry guy and it's why he gets paid the big bucks.
- SamPatt 3y ago
  Uh... they're both from the UN. You can disagree with who the UN chooses but having representatives from countries and industries which are absolutely crucial for humanity's functioning seems like a good idea.
  - ftxbro 3y ago
    > "Uh... they're both from the UN." 'the UN guy' is the secretary-general of the United Nations, the chief administrative officer of the United Nations. 'the fuel industry guy' is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultan_Al_Jaber https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultan_Al_Jaber and he is described as "the Minister of Industry and Advanced Technology of the United Arab Emirates, managing director and group CEO of the Abu Dhabi National Oil Company (ADNOC Group), chairman of Masdar (the Abu Dhabi Future Energy Company), and the United Arab Emirates' special envoy for climate change. He is the President-Designate of the upcoming COP28 climate talks." > "You can disagree with who the UN chooses" OK but I wasn't doing that. Such defensiveness did catch my interest though, and I see there is a whole section on his wiki page including "A further Guardian investigation revealed in June 2023 that a large number of fake Twitter and Medium accounts, using stock or AI-generated profile images, have been either promoting and defending the hosting of the UN climate summit by the United Arab Emirates, including reposting UAE government tweets and trying to rebut criticism of Al Jaber's presidency."