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So? Let’s say you had an old large code base in 100,000s of lines of code that just works and has been mostly untouched for years in eol/maintenance. you expec

So? Let’s say you had an old large code base in 100,000s of lines of code that just works and has been mostly untouched for years in eol/maintenance. you expect there to be budget or time to rewrite it into python 3 for literally no reason other then “2.7 is deprecated”? It’s far cheaper, potentially millions cheaper, to just change clouds/providers and find a way to continue on 2.7.

aniforprez 3y ago
> Let’s say you had an old large code base in 100,000s of lines of code that just works I've migrated 200k LoC python 2.7 codebases to python 3. It certainly wasn't painless but tools like black, flake8, 2to3 and other stuff helped. It's not impossible and can be executed in 2-4 weeks > you expect there to be budget or time to rewrite it into python 3 for literally no reason other then “2.7 is deprecated” 2.7 is not just deprecated. It's dead. There's no more updates. It's not "millions cheaper" to not migrate. I posit you'd save a LOT of money from the sheer performance improvements and bug fixes from migrating than anything else. In my own case we saved a few hundred dollars a month from not having to spawn new containers and EC2 instances
- jay_kyburz 3y ago
  To be clear, I am upgrading from Python 2.7, but while I do it I'm not building in a way that requires any code from Google and will make sure the app is platform agnostic. It doesn't really matter how many years of notice they gave me, I just haven't had time to do it.
  - b112 3y ago
    Having any sort of code on python 2.7, means you don't give a rat's ass about security. It also immediately means your code should be assumed to have back doors, vulnerabilities, because python 2.7 almost certainly does! This is what happens, when no one is maintaining software. Security is more important that anything, certainly than having time or not to update your code. You're 100% in the wrong here, and Google is 100% in the right, and I hate Google more than spammers, more than pretty much any other company there is. They're not wrong here, and it hurts me to support their stance. Fix your stuff. Stop blaming others. I doesn't matter why you're in the situation you're in, you're wrong to be there. No matter what.
    - solardev 3y ago
      Companies suffer security breaches all the time and nothing really seems to happen. Who is it important to?
    - katbyte 3y ago
      Not all code is a website or publicly accessible…
      - b112 3y ago
        Unless it is air gapped, it is accessible.
        katbyte 3y ago
        at the point that would matter you have more pressing things to worry about then old code.
        b112 3y ago
        It's not just old code, it's an old compiler too. One with security issues well known, unpatched. If you think security is an afterthought, you're doing it wrong.
        katbyte 3y ago
        again: not everything sits on the public internet, and by the time someone gets access to the application there are far more serious concerns then python 2 vs 3 this also really highlights the problem with python's 2 vs 3 split: there is a large body of work that will never be updated and will forever run 2 including actual web/publicly facing code. And saying "just upgrade because security" isn't going get much of that code upgraded.
        b112 3y ago
        and by the time someone gets acces This sort of thinking, is why places get hacked. You don't know what the access vector is. Stop making excuses. Secure your shit. I would be so happy if a law was passed, and such actions were criminal.
- katbyte 3y ago
  It really depends on the codebase and how complex or well written it is, and the. How much it costs/takes to validate and test. A website is going to be much easier and quicker then something in finance where testing and validating is by far the expensive part. Your code took a month, not everyone’s will. so again something is just running and working why spend the money and or time when there are potentially far more important things to spend limited resources on? op even said “yes I’m gonna but I don’t have the time” be
jay_kyburz 3y ago
Active State is providing support and patches for 2.7 for exactly this reason.

aniforprez 3y ago

> Let’s say you had an old large code base in 100,000s of lines of code that just works I've migrated 200k LoC python 2.7 codebases to python 3. It certainly wasn't painless but tools like black, flake8, 2to3 and other stuff helped. It's not impossible and can be executed in 2-4 weeks > you expect there to be budget or time to rewrite it into python 3 for literally no reason other then “2.7 is deprecated” 2.7 is not just deprecated. It's dead. There's no more updates. It's not "millions cheaper" to not migrate. I posit you'd save a LOT of money from the sheer performance improvements and bug fixes from migrating than anything else. In my own case we saved a few hundred dollars a month from not having to spawn new containers and EC2 instances

jay_kyburz 3y ago
To be clear, I am upgrading from Python 2.7, but while I do it I'm not building in a way that requires any code from Google and will make sure the app is platform agnostic. It doesn't really matter how many years of notice they gave me, I just haven't had time to do it.
- b112 3y ago
  Having any sort of code on python 2.7, means you don't give a rat's ass about security. It also immediately means your code should be assumed to have back doors, vulnerabilities, because python 2.7 almost certainly does! This is what happens, when no one is maintaining software. Security is more important that anything, certainly than having time or not to update your code. You're 100% in the wrong here, and Google is 100% in the right, and I hate Google more than spammers, more than pretty much any other company there is. They're not wrong here, and it hurts me to support their stance. Fix your stuff. Stop blaming others. I doesn't matter why you're in the situation you're in, you're wrong to be there. No matter what.
  - solardev 3y ago
    Companies suffer security breaches all the time and nothing really seems to happen. Who is it important to?
  - katbyte 3y ago
    Not all code is a website or publicly accessible…
    - b112 3y ago
      Unless it is air gapped, it is accessible.
      - katbyte 3y ago
        at the point that would matter you have more pressing things to worry about then old code.
        b112 3y ago
        It's not just old code, it's an old compiler too. One with security issues well known, unpatched. If you think security is an afterthought, you're doing it wrong.
        katbyte 3y ago
        again: not everything sits on the public internet, and by the time someone gets access to the application there are far more serious concerns then python 2 vs 3 this also really highlights the problem with python's 2 vs 3 split: there is a large body of work that will never be updated and will forever run 2 including actual web/publicly facing code. And saying "just upgrade because security" isn't going get much of that code upgraded.
        b112 3y ago
        and by the time someone gets acces This sort of thinking, is why places get hacked. You don't know what the access vector is. Stop making excuses. Secure your shit. I would be so happy if a law was passed, and such actions were criminal.
katbyte 3y ago
It really depends on the codebase and how complex or well written it is, and the. How much it costs/takes to validate and test. A website is going to be much easier and quicker then something in finance where testing and validating is by far the expensive part. Your code took a month, not everyone’s will. so again something is just running and working why spend the money and or time when there are potentially far more important things to spend limited resources on? op even said “yes I’m gonna but I don’t have the time” be

jay_kyburz 3y ago

Active State is providing support and patches for 2.7 for exactly this reason.