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I agree, and I find it frustrating that people assume that the only way you can make an argument in favour of Apple's walled garden is ignorance. No. I'm a soft

I agree, and I find it frustrating that people assume that the only way you can make an argument in favour of Apple's walled garden is ignorance. No. I'm a software programmer by trade. I use Linux extensively. I automate my home with Home Assistant and micro-controllers running Arduino and ESPHome. I'm not an idiot who doesn't understand the "but you can just choose to stay in the walled garden" argument. I understand the argument. I think it's naive, overly simplistic and fundamentally wrong. I like my iPhone the way it is. If you don't like it, don't choose it. Surely Android isn't so terrible that you're having difficulty deciding between it and Apple's walled garden? Surely it's not THAT bad.

mirsadm 3y ago
Your argument boils down to being selfish.
- zimpenfish 3y ago
  Sure, "I value my time" is technically selfish but it's not quite as "bad" selfish as you're implying.
- simondotau 3y ago
  If company makes a widget which doesn't perfectly align with your opinion about how widgets should work, I think it's selfish to think you are entitled to force them to change their widget to suit you.
anhner 3y ago
> If you don't like it, don't choose it. Funny, since you can make the same argument for sideloading apps.
- simondotau 3y ago
  True, if Apple gets to decide how inconvenient sideloading is. They'd make it as seamless as it is on Android. In which case the outcome would be similar to Android. False, if we're talking about Apple's hands being forced by legislation and court order. Epic will sue Apple repeatedly until anything standing in the way of a seamless install of Epic Game Store is stripped from the process. A seamless sideloading/alt-store experience means apps I use today stop being distributed in the App Store. Why would Google distribute the gmail app in the App Store where they're unable to track user activity, when they could distribute it in the Play Store For iOS and not have to comply with Apple's pro-consumer privacy policies?
  - wiseowise 3y ago
    > In which case the outcome would be similar to Android. And what’s that? > False, if we're talking about Apple's hands being forced by legislation and court order. Epic will sue Apple repeatedly until anything standing in the way of a seamless install of Epic Game Store is stripped from the process. A seamless sideloading/alt-store experience means apps I use today stop being distributed in the App Store. Absolutely, we’ll end up a situation where checks notes Epic returned with tail between its legs to Play Store, despite your absurd claims. > Why would Google distribute the gmail app in the App Store where they're unable to track user activity, when they could distribute it in the Play Store For iOS and not have to comply with Apple's pro-consumer privacy policies? This is the reason Google pays 15 billion to be default search engine on iPhone, so that they’ll remove their already marginal apps (expect for maybe maps) from dominant store on absolutely fanatical ecosystem.
    - simondotau 3y ago
      Again— ...if we're talking about Apple's hands being forced by legislation... Epic lost because legislation isn't currently on their side.
wiseowise 3y ago
> If you don't like it, don't choose it. Surely Android isn't so terrible that you're having difficulty deciding between it and Apple's walled garden? Surely it's not THAT bad. Let’s make deal, shall we? You’ll use Android for a year and at end of 2024 you’ll let me know?
- simondotau 3y ago
  I like my iPhone the way it is.
  - wiseowise 3y ago
    Good for you. Maybe stop preaching what you won’t practice, then.
    - simondotau 3y ago
      And likewise. Or is Android not good enough for you?
      - wiseowise 3y ago
        Likewise what? I do not project my Stockholm syndrome on others. > Or is Android not good enough for you? No. And I’ve used it enough to not absurdly offer it as an alternative in a valid complaint.
raxxorraxor 3y ago
We use iPhone for corporate business. There are obvious advantages of locked phones as there are with standardized OS compared to customized linux system. Sensible arguments that make a lot of stuff much easier. But none of these arguments apply to private usage, it applies to a third party wanting to configure the phone for you. Can you elaborate what you find naive, simplistic and fundamentally wrong? I just want to understand some of the considerations. Is it because you would use the unlocked features and ruin the ease of use for yourself?
- simondotau 3y ago
  The walled garden forces app developers to comply with Apple’s consumer-friendly privacy restrictions. Many larger developers absolutely detest these, not least of which is Epic, whose campaign against Apple started months after Apple announced their crackdown on tracking. A crackdown which, if you recall, was universally commended by the Hacker News community. If the iOS walled garden is torn down by legislation, the result won’t be akin to Android. It will break down the status quo that any app I want is available from the App Store, and subject to Apple’s rules. The status quo with Android is Google wanting the appearance of being open, but without being a commercially viable channel. This is because it was their choice, not dictated to them by legislation.

mirsadm 3y ago

Your argument boils down to being selfish.

zimpenfish 3y ago
Sure, "I value my time" is technically selfish but it's not quite as "bad" selfish as you're implying.
simondotau 3y ago
If company makes a widget which doesn't perfectly align with your opinion about how widgets should work, I think it's selfish to think you are entitled to force them to change their widget to suit you.

anhner 3y ago

> If you don't like it, don't choose it. Funny, since you can make the same argument for sideloading apps.

simondotau 3y ago
True, if Apple gets to decide how inconvenient sideloading is. They'd make it as seamless as it is on Android. In which case the outcome would be similar to Android. False, if we're talking about Apple's hands being forced by legislation and court order. Epic will sue Apple repeatedly until anything standing in the way of a seamless install of Epic Game Store is stripped from the process. A seamless sideloading/alt-store experience means apps I use today stop being distributed in the App Store. Why would Google distribute the gmail app in the App Store where they're unable to track user activity, when they could distribute it in the Play Store For iOS and not have to comply with Apple's pro-consumer privacy policies?
- wiseowise 3y ago
  > In which case the outcome would be similar to Android. And what’s that? > False, if we're talking about Apple's hands being forced by legislation and court order. Epic will sue Apple repeatedly until anything standing in the way of a seamless install of Epic Game Store is stripped from the process. A seamless sideloading/alt-store experience means apps I use today stop being distributed in the App Store. Absolutely, we’ll end up a situation where checks notes Epic returned with tail between its legs to Play Store, despite your absurd claims. > Why would Google distribute the gmail app in the App Store where they're unable to track user activity, when they could distribute it in the Play Store For iOS and not have to comply with Apple's pro-consumer privacy policies? This is the reason Google pays 15 billion to be default search engine on iPhone, so that they’ll remove their already marginal apps (expect for maybe maps) from dominant store on absolutely fanatical ecosystem.
  - simondotau 3y ago
    Again— ...if we're talking about Apple's hands being forced by legislation... Epic lost because legislation isn't currently on their side.

wiseowise 3y ago

> If you don't like it, don't choose it. Surely Android isn't so terrible that you're having difficulty deciding between it and Apple's walled garden? Surely it's not THAT bad. Let’s make deal, shall we? You’ll use Android for a year and at end of 2024 you’ll let me know?

simondotau 3y ago
I like my iPhone the way it is.
- wiseowise 3y ago
  Good for you. Maybe stop preaching what you won’t practice, then.
  - simondotau 3y ago
    And likewise. Or is Android not good enough for you?
    - wiseowise 3y ago
      Likewise what? I do not project my Stockholm syndrome on others. > Or is Android not good enough for you? No. And I’ve used it enough to not absurdly offer it as an alternative in a valid complaint.

raxxorraxor 3y ago

We use iPhone for corporate business. There are obvious advantages of locked phones as there are with standardized OS compared to customized linux system. Sensible arguments that make a lot of stuff much easier. But none of these arguments apply to private usage, it applies to a third party wanting to configure the phone for you. Can you elaborate what you find naive, simplistic and fundamentally wrong? I just want to understand some of the considerations. Is it because you would use the unlocked features and ruin the ease of use for yourself?

simondotau 3y ago
The walled garden forces app developers to comply with Apple’s consumer-friendly privacy restrictions. Many larger developers absolutely detest these, not least of which is Epic, whose campaign against Apple started months after Apple announced their crackdown on tracking. A crackdown which, if you recall, was universally commended by the Hacker News community. If the iOS walled garden is torn down by legislation, the result won’t be akin to Android. It will break down the status quo that any app I want is available from the App Store, and subject to Apple’s rules. The status quo with Android is Google wanting the appearance of being open, but without being a commercially viable channel. This is because it was their choice, not dictated to them by legislation.