8 ms·

I have to disagree. I moved from Android to an iPhone because I WANT a walled garden. I need you to understand that I build my own PCs/gaming rig, have been in

I have to disagree. I moved from Android to an iPhone because I WANT a walled garden. I need you to understand that I build my own PCs/gaming rig, have been in IT for years, and I've been a full time developer for decades. The thing about the iPhone is that I DON'T have to think about it. Malware is VERY rare, MUCH more rare than Android, and I DON'T have to worry about...basically anything. This is coming from a guy running 2 desktops and a laptop. A Windows desktop for gaming, a Linux Desktop for productivity, and a Macbook Pro for the day gig. Oh and I also have a Windows laptop for a mix of everything on the go.

mcmcmc 3y ago
You disagree that users should have a choice? The comment you replied to didn’t say the walled garden shouldn’t exist, or that it’s bad, just that people who own the device should have a choice, i.e. you can stay on iOS with the walled garden, or you can flash it with whatever the hell else you want. The second choice doesn’t invalidate the first.
- simondotau 3y ago
  Everyone has a choice. Choose Android. If you think iPhone is the wrong choice, don't choose it. Is Android really so terrible that you're having difficulty deciding between it and Apple's walled garden? Surely it's not THAT bad.
  - wiseowise 3y ago
    Do I understand correctly that you suggest something without even using it?
    - simondotau 3y ago
      As a developer I use Android a lot. It's fine. I don't see what the big deal is.
      - wiseowise 3y ago
        Good, switch to it for a couple of years, use multiple vendors and then let everyone know how Android is a viable alternative to iOS.
        krger 3y ago
        >Good, switch to it for a couple of years, use multiple vendors and then let everyone know how Android is a viable alternative to iOS. "I want Apple to be forced into making the same choices that its competitors made because those competitors' devices are, collectively, a miserable hellscape," isn't the winning argument you seem to think it is.
        wiseowise 3y ago
        Completely missing point of what I said and making a straw man out of it isn’t the gotcha moment you seem to think it is.
        krger 3y ago
        >Completely missing point of what I said and making a straw man out of it isn’t the gotcha moment you seem to think it is. Okay, so what's the point of what you said? For reference, you said: >Good, switch to it for a couple of years, use multiple vendors and then let everyone know how Android is a viable alternative to iOS. What, then, is the point of what you said? You seem to believe that Android is not a viable alternative to iOS. What specific actions do you believe Apple should be required to take here?
        _ea1k 3y ago
        I've been using it for years. It has its issues, but also has its strengths. The biggest issue these days is that Apple has built a walled garden around their messaging system. I can't fault Android for that.
  - fsflover 3y ago
    Yes, Android is terrible. This is a duopoly, not a free market. Users are disadvantaged.
    - inferiorhuman 3y ago
      If Android is terrible take it up with Google, not Apple.
      - fsflover 3y ago
        How about both? And with the regulators, too.
        simondotau 3y ago
        Are you seriously suggesting that it's Apple's fault if Android is terrible?
        fsflover 3y ago
        Yes, I do. There is literally no choice for people who can't afford Apple or for any reason don't like it. In this sense Android is almost a monopoly, which allows it to stay popular and terrible. This is classic duopoly.
        simondotau 3y ago
        If you think Android is "almost a monopoly" then how do you figure that Apple is responsible for breaking that monopoly? Surely it's Microsoft's responsibility. Or perhaps Blackberry's. Or is it Nokia's? If Android really is a monopoly, perhaps the solution is to break up Google — not to force someone other than Google to turn their product into an Android clone.
        fsflover 3y ago
        In a duopoly, it's the fault of both sides, isn't it? They both misbehave, even though in different ways. I would be happy to break up Google and also (at user's choice) remove the Apple's walled garden.
- zuppy 3y ago
  yes, because that option will be exploited. most of the people are not tech savy, if some app tells them to change a config, they will do it without any afterthought. i don't have to support the ipad i gave to my father, which is not the case with his android phone, that has a lot of crap/adware/malware installed. why do you guys deny so much that this happens? i am happy that andoid exists, but i just want the ios experience to continue to exist, we all have a choice.
  - piaste 3y ago
    Have you ever unlocked the bootloader and installed a custom rooted ROM on Android, which is what the original author requires? I have. For most vendors, it involves putzing around with adb commands in a terminal and copying image files around. GrapheneOS is the most user-friendly, thanks to a WebUSB installer that holds your hand - but it still involves hitting key combinations in the recovery screen and other scary stuff. Even for that best-case scenario, unlocking your phone always involves a factory reset, which wipes all your apps and data. The idea that Epic and Meta will quit the official store and ask their users to go through that process is hilarious.
bb88 3y ago
> Malware is VERY rare, MUCH more rare than Android, Until your phone stops getting security updates. Then what? You toss it in the trash? Can you jail break it? Can you run something like postmarketOS on it? Isn't that kinda the point of the original article? To get off the cycle of buying a phone every few years just because Apple decides it belongs in the trash? And to prevent e-waste from going in the landfills?
- realfeel78 3y ago
  The current version of iOS still supports iPhone X, from 6 years ago. Who are these imaginary people you think want or need a 7+ year-old phone?
  - bb88 3y ago
    So here's a graph: https://www.statista.com/statistics/276306/global-apple-iphone-sales-since-fiscal-year-2007/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/276306/global-apple-ipho... What happened to the many hundreds of millions of iPhones sold before 2017? Landfill?
    - funnybeam 3y ago
      That graph shows iPhone sales year on year. I’d be interested to see recycling stats as I know Apple will recycle iPhones for free but I couldn’t find much with a quick search. How many Android devices are still in use after 7 years? And receiving updates? I suspect these are generating e waste at a much higher rate than iPhones but would love to see some comparable figures
      - bb88 3y ago
        I'm in complete agreement here. All phone makers should make their devices last for a minimum of 10 years after purchase. Not just Apple. But Google too. I too would like to know those stats for both Apple and Android. I suspect it's rather low though. I'm pretty sure e-waste just gets sent to China these days. This is a shame because there are a lot of old tablets and phones that would be useful as general computing devices.
bombolo 3y ago
iphones aren't that secure, just FYI. https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2023/06/operation-triangulation-zero-click-iphone-malware.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2023/06/operation-tri...

mcmcmc 3y ago

You disagree that users should have a choice? The comment you replied to didn’t say the walled garden shouldn’t exist, or that it’s bad, just that people who own the device should have a choice, i.e. you can stay on iOS with the walled garden, or you can flash it with whatever the hell else you want. The second choice doesn’t invalidate the first.

simondotau 3y ago
Everyone has a choice. Choose Android. If you think iPhone is the wrong choice, don't choose it. Is Android really so terrible that you're having difficulty deciding between it and Apple's walled garden? Surely it's not THAT bad.
- wiseowise 3y ago
  Do I understand correctly that you suggest something without even using it?
  - simondotau 3y ago
    As a developer I use Android a lot. It's fine. I don't see what the big deal is.
    - wiseowise 3y ago
      Good, switch to it for a couple of years, use multiple vendors and then let everyone know how Android is a viable alternative to iOS.
      - krger 3y ago
        >Good, switch to it for a couple of years, use multiple vendors and then let everyone know how Android is a viable alternative to iOS. "I want Apple to be forced into making the same choices that its competitors made because those competitors' devices are, collectively, a miserable hellscape," isn't the winning argument you seem to think it is.
        wiseowise 3y ago
        Completely missing point of what I said and making a straw man out of it isn’t the gotcha moment you seem to think it is.
        krger 3y ago
        >Completely missing point of what I said and making a straw man out of it isn’t the gotcha moment you seem to think it is. Okay, so what's the point of what you said? For reference, you said: >Good, switch to it for a couple of years, use multiple vendors and then let everyone know how Android is a viable alternative to iOS. What, then, is the point of what you said? You seem to believe that Android is not a viable alternative to iOS. What specific actions do you believe Apple should be required to take here?
      - _ea1k 3y ago
        I've been using it for years. It has its issues, but also has its strengths. The biggest issue these days is that Apple has built a walled garden around their messaging system. I can't fault Android for that.
- fsflover 3y ago
  Yes, Android is terrible. This is a duopoly, not a free market. Users are disadvantaged.
  - inferiorhuman 3y ago
    If Android is terrible take it up with Google, not Apple.
    - fsflover 3y ago
      How about both? And with the regulators, too.
      - simondotau 3y ago
        Are you seriously suggesting that it's Apple's fault if Android is terrible?
        fsflover 3y ago
        Yes, I do. There is literally no choice for people who can't afford Apple or for any reason don't like it. In this sense Android is almost a monopoly, which allows it to stay popular and terrible. This is classic duopoly.
        simondotau 3y ago
        If you think Android is "almost a monopoly" then how do you figure that Apple is responsible for breaking that monopoly? Surely it's Microsoft's responsibility. Or perhaps Blackberry's. Or is it Nokia's? If Android really is a monopoly, perhaps the solution is to break up Google — not to force someone other than Google to turn their product into an Android clone.
        fsflover 3y ago
        In a duopoly, it's the fault of both sides, isn't it? They both misbehave, even though in different ways. I would be happy to break up Google and also (at user's choice) remove the Apple's walled garden.
zuppy 3y ago
yes, because that option will be exploited. most of the people are not tech savy, if some app tells them to change a config, they will do it without any afterthought. i don't have to support the ipad i gave to my father, which is not the case with his android phone, that has a lot of crap/adware/malware installed. why do you guys deny so much that this happens? i am happy that andoid exists, but i just want the ios experience to continue to exist, we all have a choice.
- piaste 3y ago
  Have you ever unlocked the bootloader and installed a custom rooted ROM on Android, which is what the original author requires? I have. For most vendors, it involves putzing around with adb commands in a terminal and copying image files around. GrapheneOS is the most user-friendly, thanks to a WebUSB installer that holds your hand - but it still involves hitting key combinations in the recovery screen and other scary stuff. Even for that best-case scenario, unlocking your phone always involves a factory reset, which wipes all your apps and data. The idea that Epic and Meta will quit the official store and ask their users to go through that process is hilarious.

bb88 3y ago

> Malware is VERY rare, MUCH more rare than Android, Until your phone stops getting security updates. Then what? You toss it in the trash? Can you jail break it? Can you run something like postmarketOS on it? Isn't that kinda the point of the original article? To get off the cycle of buying a phone every few years just because Apple decides it belongs in the trash? And to prevent e-waste from going in the landfills?

realfeel78 3y ago
The current version of iOS still supports iPhone X, from 6 years ago. Who are these imaginary people you think want or need a 7+ year-old phone?
- bb88 3y ago
  So here's a graph: https://www.statista.com/statistics/276306/global-apple-iphone-sales-since-fiscal-year-2007/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/276306/global-apple-ipho... What happened to the many hundreds of millions of iPhones sold before 2017? Landfill?
  - funnybeam 3y ago
    That graph shows iPhone sales year on year. I’d be interested to see recycling stats as I know Apple will recycle iPhones for free but I couldn’t find much with a quick search. How many Android devices are still in use after 7 years? And receiving updates? I suspect these are generating e waste at a much higher rate than iPhones but would love to see some comparable figures
    - bb88 3y ago
      I'm in complete agreement here. All phone makers should make their devices last for a minimum of 10 years after purchase. Not just Apple. But Google too. I too would like to know those stats for both Apple and Android. I suspect it's rather low though. I'm pretty sure e-waste just gets sent to China these days. This is a shame because there are a lot of old tablets and phones that would be useful as general computing devices.

bombolo 3y ago

iphones aren't that secure, just FYI. https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2023/06/operation-triangulation-zero-click-iphone-malware.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2023/06/operation-tri...