5 ms·

> We are building Sydney Opera Houses. Sorry, this made me laugh. I know there are software engineers which build clean and polished beautiful mega structures.

by vletal 3y ago

> We are building Sydney Opera Houses. Sorry, this made me laugh. I know there are software engineers which build clean and polished beautiful mega structures. I _aspire_ to that. Yet that is a niche market. In reality, most devs are making unique family Vilas at best. I wish I could ever say I feel like I contributed to an equivalent of 'Sydney Opera House'.

skeeter2020 3y ago
Most of us our building prefab housing, but the challenge is there's infinite ways to put the modules together, and unlike real housing no physics to reduce the problem set of possbilities.
- depereo 3y ago
  Even the prefab stuff has unknown unknowns - but everyone skimps on the geotechnical assessments of the ground you're building on...
- ehnto 3y ago
  And the prefab modules are all from different manufacturers who follow different standards.
  - masklinn 3y ago
    And some of the hands have a tendency to put electrical between module feet and to try and bond the modules with wood glue.
lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
I am reminded of software like the “Snake” malware. Not exactly “ostentasteful” like the Sydney Opera House but grand and intricate with a specific, kinda-but-not-exactly unique purpose. (I’m sure there are other examples but my mind has an information security bias and I learned about “Snake” recently.) Not the bespoke CMS I work on for Bob’s Bait Shop.
xlii 3y ago
I might be mistaken but Sydney Opera House is brought here (as it often is) in context of project management as a heavily underestimated project (took 15 years to build while planned for 4, cost ~15x of original estimate) - not in the context how detailed and greatly architected it is. There are deep analysis from the project management perspective but one point was that initial estimates were based on historical assumptions while some elements were novel and couldn’t be estimated with those techniques. With software it’s similar. We have some general feel how things should work but often there’s “this” novel part that no one did before and it’s wishful thinking, leading to budget and timeline spillover. If you ever had to guess-estimate something you never saw and it turned out to be overly optimistic - that’s similar case to Sydney Opera House (which I recommend to read about as there are many analyses of the case from various project-related points)
- rswail 3y ago
  It also leaves out the political machinations that a conservative government was elected after the project had begun under a centre-left government and they continually interfered in the development until the original architect left the project in disgust. After which the internals were completed by a set of "government architects" that did as about a good a job as you'd expect. Not to mention that the original design had its own issues, including not actually being able to support proper opera theatrical performances due to the size and structure of the internals.

by vletal 3y ago

skeeter2020 3y ago

Most of us our building prefab housing, but the challenge is there's infinite ways to put the modules together, and unlike real housing no physics to reduce the problem set of possbilities.

depereo 3y ago
Even the prefab stuff has unknown unknowns - but everyone skimps on the geotechnical assessments of the ground you're building on...
ehnto 3y ago
And the prefab modules are all from different manufacturers who follow different standards.
- masklinn 3y ago
  And some of the hands have a tendency to put electrical between module feet and to try and bond the modules with wood glue.

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago

I am reminded of software like the “Snake” malware. Not exactly “ostentasteful” like the Sydney Opera House but grand and intricate with a specific, kinda-but-not-exactly unique purpose. (I’m sure there are other examples but my mind has an information security bias and I learned about “Snake” recently.) Not the bespoke CMS I work on for Bob’s Bait Shop.

xlii 3y ago

I might be mistaken but Sydney Opera House is brought here (as it often is) in context of project management as a heavily underestimated project (took 15 years to build while planned for 4, cost ~15x of original estimate) - not in the context how detailed and greatly architected it is. There are deep analysis from the project management perspective but one point was that initial estimates were based on historical assumptions while some elements were novel and couldn’t be estimated with those techniques. With software it’s similar. We have some general feel how things should work but often there’s “this” novel part that no one did before and it’s wishful thinking, leading to budget and timeline spillover. If you ever had to guess-estimate something you never saw and it turned out to be overly optimistic - that’s similar case to Sydney Opera House (which I recommend to read about as there are many analyses of the case from various project-related points)

rswail 3y ago
It also leaves out the political machinations that a conservative government was elected after the project had begun under a centre-left government and they continually interfered in the development until the original architect left the project in disgust. After which the internals were completed by a set of "government architects" that did as about a good a job as you'd expect. Not to mention that the original design had its own issues, including not actually being able to support proper opera theatrical performances due to the size and structure of the internals.