4 ms·

> I fully understand how much Meta, Apple and others "want to make fetch happen". Many of us are simply just not interested. That thing that gets me is just ho

by allenu 3y ago

> I fully understand how much Meta, Apple and others "want to make fetch happen". Many of us are simply just not interested. That thing that gets me is just how weak the scenarios were in their promotional videos. After building this device, the best that they could offer as benefits were viewing 3D photographs of your children, looking at multiple screens around you, or watching a single large screen for a movie or photo-browsing. (I mean, they showed somebody browsing the web. Why even dedicate time your video to show that?) It feels like they're either out of ideas or really playing it safe. I'm guessing they do want to make "fetch" happen but don't really know how and are just going to bet on third party devs creating some killer app they haven't thought of. They've certainly got the time and money to work it out over the next few years.

wpietri 3y ago
Exactly. I was watching carefully for some new capability, something that couldn't be done before. But I didn't see anything, except maybe "watch movies on a plane without looking down at your tablet/phone". Maybe I'm weird, but if I were so sensitive to bad experiences that I couldn't just watch a movie on a tablet, I wouldn't be on a plane in the first place.
- cubefox 3y ago
  The only "new capability" for VR headsets seem to be ... VR games. But Apple very much doesn't want to advertise the headset as a game console, even though VR games are obviously a type of app it can run, just with hand gesture controls instead of dedicated VR controllers.
dylan604 3y ago
I'm guessing Apple is hoping that the apps will be the killer thing. They claim to have not expected the app store to be so successful, so maybe they're hoping they don't need to create the killer app that someone else will. That's why they are introducing the dev tools for it so much sooner than it being available. They are banking on killer apps being announced before launch
- cubefox 3y ago
  I remember a news article about the Apple headset a few weeks before it was officially revealed. It cited anonymous Apple employees being pessimistic about the prospects of the new headset, and one of them was actually quoted as saying that perhaps the apps will save it. This sounds indeed like Apple doesn't know what it might be good for, while hoping app developers will find some novel use case. Otherwise it will not be much more than an AR window manger.
  - Tagbert 3y ago
    In any given group of people something like this will appeal to some and not to others. From the limited about of information that leaked out, it is pretty clear that most people in Apple didn’t really know much about the device and only had rumors. It’s likely that only a few had ever tried to use one. this is a new general purpose computing device, so most of the regular things you might do with a laptop would be doable here. Of course the difference here is that you have an immersive view and a nearly unlimited screen to work with and one where you can seamlessly blend the virtual and physical world. I think that is going to be transformative for the existing applications and will open up a space for other activities that we haven’t seen yet.
mxkopy 3y ago
Apparently the eye-tracking is 'like telepathy', according to MKBHD. I feel like if Apple fleshes out GameKit and integrates Vision Pro as a more general input device then that alone could be a killer feature. Imagine having telepathy in League or Minecraft.
- spudlyo 3y ago
  I want to live in a future where focus-follows-gaze is the default.
- gpm 3y ago
  Revolutionary speed-chess technology... If it's as good as sold I actually do wonder how chess websites will deal with it. Faster input technology has been a problem before: https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/35358/why-is-lichess-keyboard-input-opposed https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/35358/why-is-liche...
wahahah 3y ago
I think it's simply a matter of the media not being there yet. You could envision movies made specifically for experiencing through these devices that would be utterly enthralling to take in, but it won't be for another half decade at least. Otherwise, I think Apple's focus on "spatiality" is what is key.
arjonagelhout 3y ago
I think Apple has played it incredibly safe with their announcement, and I did not get excited by the way they presented potential use cases for the device, as they didn’t venture much further than “what if you could have a screen, but then bigger and anywhere in your surroundings?” But what they did get right was the hardware and operating system itself and the fact that it needs to be boring and “just work”. As a young 3d artist and software engineer I just desperately want it, and want to develop for it. I want to walk around in my 3d creations and want to let other people experience what I can envision in my head. While I don’t see it being as big of a leap as the desktop computer, internet or smartphone in terms of _productivity_, I do think enabling creativity is the “killer” app. Imagine building and playing with an unlimited world like Minecraft or with LEGO bricks, right in your living room :) Personally I’m building an app that allows me to put my 3D art from Blender into AR on the Meta Quest Pro [0], and it’s so much fun to do. It gives me a childlike joy to walk through my own creations and share them with others. Anyway, I got a bit carried away, but I feel like HN is quite pessimistic about AR and VR, and want to give some positive counter views. [0] https://youtu.be/cbIDRB1u04s https://youtu.be/cbIDRB1u04s
- eevo 3y ago
  What's frustrating is that Meta was so close to "getting it" - games where you get to be in the creative driver's seat are underrepresented right now. The Metaverse should be the place you can experience that childlike wonder you mentioned - decorate your place, visit your friends, set up your own escape room, show off the 3d art you made with tiltbrush. 3d myspace. During the pandemic I bought a quest, learned blender & unity, and built a little retro arcade with skeeball and a few other games. It was so much fun. I'm disappointed that Apple is focused so much on office productivity AR, I'd rather be transported somewhere else in space and time with VR - not marginally more productive at work. But still crossing fingers that this is the start of something.
  - rektide 3y ago
    The metaverse problem is that there are a million different metaverse. Creating a stable spatial OS that other experiences can exist inside of creates a broader-spanning ur-system that might possibly grow. Where-as most metaverses aspire to be a beginning & end. Creating open ended technical ecosystems is a challenge.
makeitdouble 3y ago
Another look at it: Apple has a successful mobile and a full computing platform already on the market and has only limited ROI in VR wildly succeeding. At best it replaces their existing platform. In comparison, Meta or HTC have a lot more to gain. While paying lip service to "Spacial computing" their product name is "Vision", so the core of it arguably the display part and they'll be pushing it as viewing device more than anything (I like TheVerge's "Apple made a TV" headline). And VR staying a minor platform only used as a display will be totally fine by them, they'll just keep selling computers on the side. PS: For comparison, this was the pitch for Hololens: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqFqtAJMtYE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqFqtAJMtYE
- ukuina 3y ago
  A more grounded pitch for Hololens 2: https://youtu.be/d3YT8j0yYl0 https://youtu.be/d3YT8j0yYl0

by allenu 3y ago

wpietri 3y ago

Exactly. I was watching carefully for some new capability, something that couldn't be done before. But I didn't see anything, except maybe "watch movies on a plane without looking down at your tablet/phone". Maybe I'm weird, but if I were so sensitive to bad experiences that I couldn't just watch a movie on a tablet, I wouldn't be on a plane in the first place.

cubefox 3y ago
The only "new capability" for VR headsets seem to be ... VR games. But Apple very much doesn't want to advertise the headset as a game console, even though VR games are obviously a type of app it can run, just with hand gesture controls instead of dedicated VR controllers.

dylan604 3y ago

I'm guessing Apple is hoping that the apps will be the killer thing. They claim to have not expected the app store to be so successful, so maybe they're hoping they don't need to create the killer app that someone else will. That's why they are introducing the dev tools for it so much sooner than it being available. They are banking on killer apps being announced before launch

cubefox 3y ago
I remember a news article about the Apple headset a few weeks before it was officially revealed. It cited anonymous Apple employees being pessimistic about the prospects of the new headset, and one of them was actually quoted as saying that perhaps the apps will save it. This sounds indeed like Apple doesn't know what it might be good for, while hoping app developers will find some novel use case. Otherwise it will not be much more than an AR window manger.
- Tagbert 3y ago
  In any given group of people something like this will appeal to some and not to others. From the limited about of information that leaked out, it is pretty clear that most people in Apple didn’t really know much about the device and only had rumors. It’s likely that only a few had ever tried to use one. this is a new general purpose computing device, so most of the regular things you might do with a laptop would be doable here. Of course the difference here is that you have an immersive view and a nearly unlimited screen to work with and one where you can seamlessly blend the virtual and physical world. I think that is going to be transformative for the existing applications and will open up a space for other activities that we haven’t seen yet.

mxkopy 3y ago

Apparently the eye-tracking is 'like telepathy', according to MKBHD. I feel like if Apple fleshes out GameKit and integrates Vision Pro as a more general input device then that alone could be a killer feature. Imagine having telepathy in League or Minecraft.

spudlyo 3y ago
I want to live in a future where focus-follows-gaze is the default.
gpm 3y ago
Revolutionary speed-chess technology... If it's as good as sold I actually do wonder how chess websites will deal with it. Faster input technology has been a problem before: https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/35358/why-is-lichess-keyboard-input-opposed https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/35358/why-is-liche...

wahahah 3y ago

I think it's simply a matter of the media not being there yet. You could envision movies made specifically for experiencing through these devices that would be utterly enthralling to take in, but it won't be for another half decade at least. Otherwise, I think Apple's focus on "spatiality" is what is key.

arjonagelhout 3y ago

I think Apple has played it incredibly safe with their announcement, and I did not get excited by the way they presented potential use cases for the device, as they didn’t venture much further than “what if you could have a screen, but then bigger and anywhere in your surroundings?” But what they did get right was the hardware and operating system itself and the fact that it needs to be boring and “just work”. As a young 3d artist and software engineer I just desperately want it, and want to develop for it. I want to walk around in my 3d creations and want to let other people experience what I can envision in my head. While I don’t see it being as big of a leap as the desktop computer, internet or smartphone in terms of _productivity_, I do think enabling creativity is the “killer” app. Imagine building and playing with an unlimited world like Minecraft or with LEGO bricks, right in your living room :) Personally I’m building an app that allows me to put my 3D art from Blender into AR on the Meta Quest Pro [0], and it’s so much fun to do. It gives me a childlike joy to walk through my own creations and share them with others. Anyway, I got a bit carried away, but I feel like HN is quite pessimistic about AR and VR, and want to give some positive counter views. [0] https://youtu.be/cbIDRB1u04s https://youtu.be/cbIDRB1u04s

eevo 3y ago
What's frustrating is that Meta was so close to "getting it" - games where you get to be in the creative driver's seat are underrepresented right now. The Metaverse should be the place you can experience that childlike wonder you mentioned - decorate your place, visit your friends, set up your own escape room, show off the 3d art you made with tiltbrush. 3d myspace. During the pandemic I bought a quest, learned blender & unity, and built a little retro arcade with skeeball and a few other games. It was so much fun. I'm disappointed that Apple is focused so much on office productivity AR, I'd rather be transported somewhere else in space and time with VR - not marginally more productive at work. But still crossing fingers that this is the start of something.
- rektide 3y ago
  The metaverse problem is that there are a million different metaverse. Creating a stable spatial OS that other experiences can exist inside of creates a broader-spanning ur-system that might possibly grow. Where-as most metaverses aspire to be a beginning & end. Creating open ended technical ecosystems is a challenge.

makeitdouble 3y ago

Another look at it: Apple has a successful mobile and a full computing platform already on the market and has only limited ROI in VR wildly succeeding. At best it replaces their existing platform. In comparison, Meta or HTC have a lot more to gain. While paying lip service to "Spacial computing" their product name is "Vision", so the core of it arguably the display part and they'll be pushing it as viewing device more than anything (I like TheVerge's "Apple made a TV" headline). And VR staying a minor platform only used as a display will be totally fine by them, they'll just keep selling computers on the side. PS: For comparison, this was the pitch for Hololens: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqFqtAJMtYE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqFqtAJMtYE

ukuina 3y ago
A more grounded pitch for Hololens 2: https://youtu.be/d3YT8j0yYl0 https://youtu.be/d3YT8j0yYl0