4 ms·

> Why couldn’t we live in a world where Facebook can’t abuse you because you don’t want them to? Unilateral bargaining power. Facebook is willing to write an a

by derefr 3y ago

> Why couldn’t we live in a world where Facebook can’t abuse you because you don’t want them to? Unilateral bargaining power. Facebook is willing to write an app for iOS that doesn't track people as well as they'd like, because Apple is there on the other side of the table, with 40% market share, saying "do it our way or don't do it at all." Compare/contrast Windows PCs, where everything really is ultimately "whatever the user wants." You can arbitrarily modify the executables that run on your computer, sure. But can you get a modded game to let you play online, without running some Intel SGX rootkit that verifies the game's code signature and watches every HID input you make to ensure you're not cheating? No, you can't — because despite owning the PC itself that the software is running on, you don't have a negotiating position that enables you to tell the company that runs the servers that that game connects to for online play, to allow a non-rootkit-monitored version of their game client to connect to them.

midoridensha 3y ago
If you don't like rootkit-monitored games on your PC, it's really simple: don't install them. No one is forcing you to buy and use those games.
- matheusmoreira 3y ago
  Nah. We'll defeat their monitoring and have fun on our terms. It's offensive that they even think they can dictate what can or can't happen on our machines. The audacity of these corporations.
- LexGray 3y ago
  That would be easier if there was a required nutrition label "Requires root access which will not be revoked on uninstall", "requires background services when app is not running", "shares telemetry with developer". That is far from the world we are in and the budget tech has to defeat any law that would attempt to implement those protections. As it is many developers seem not to care if whatever frameworks they use are affecting system integrity or stability if it would generally not be noticed by the end user. Most users are going to need a trustworthy gatekeeper why can make some of these evaluations so you do not need extensive research just to play a game. Not to say I agree with the position Apple appears to be taking here on not allowing macOS apps to run directly on the device, and not allowing it to function as a display for every device in the home. For single people in small spaces who currently burn wall space for monitors and televisions or just do not like big black slabs in their living space this could have been a useful gizmo.
retrocryptid 3y ago
But again... the counter-claim is Apple is telling Facebook they can't track iOS users because Apple doesn't want to share that data with Facebook. But they (Apple) still track users.
- 4BynHmBFUxBD 3y ago
  Apple also has their own burgeoning ad business…
  - theshrike79 3y ago
    "Burgeoning" :D Apple made $2B from ads in 2022 from a total of $394 billion, 0,5% of total revenue. Google made $224 billion from ads about 50% of total. I still trust the company that makes the vast majority of their money from stuff that doesn't need a profile about me and my personal life to function.
    - 4BynHmBFUxBD 3y ago
      Totally agree. I own Apple products (iPhone and Mac) for that reason. It’s something to keep an eye on though.
matheusmoreira 3y ago
The ultimate negotiating position is law. Simply make what they're doing illegal until it stops happening. Computing freedom must be enshrined into law. It doesn't matter how much money it costs them.
- Gigachad 3y ago
  Ok, that's still an option. At any moment governments could step in, but they haven't. So rather than waiting forever while being abused by companies, I'm going to buy an iphone and have a nice experience now.
  - matheusmoreira 3y ago
    It's the only option. It's either that or give up. Look at Android. It's honestly a piece of shit but at least we were in control. Well, not anymore: now apps can use remote attestation to see if you "tampered" with your own device. So you're not in control anymore because if you exercise that control you get locked out of every service. Hell my fucking bank's app complains and refuses to run if I have developer mode turned on. Might as well choose the better kept garden if it's gonna be like this. I decided to buy a Pixel and run GrapheneOS because I literally can't live without Termux anymore but I definitely understand your point.

by derefr 3y ago

midoridensha 3y ago

If you don't like rootkit-monitored games on your PC, it's really simple: don't install them. No one is forcing you to buy and use those games.

matheusmoreira 3y ago
Nah. We'll defeat their monitoring and have fun on our terms. It's offensive that they even think they can dictate what can or can't happen on our machines. The audacity of these corporations.
LexGray 3y ago
That would be easier if there was a required nutrition label "Requires root access which will not be revoked on uninstall", "requires background services when app is not running", "shares telemetry with developer". That is far from the world we are in and the budget tech has to defeat any law that would attempt to implement those protections. As it is many developers seem not to care if whatever frameworks they use are affecting system integrity or stability if it would generally not be noticed by the end user. Most users are going to need a trustworthy gatekeeper why can make some of these evaluations so you do not need extensive research just to play a game. Not to say I agree with the position Apple appears to be taking here on not allowing macOS apps to run directly on the device, and not allowing it to function as a display for every device in the home. For single people in small spaces who currently burn wall space for monitors and televisions or just do not like big black slabs in their living space this could have been a useful gizmo.

retrocryptid 3y ago

But again... the counter-claim is Apple is telling Facebook they can't track iOS users because Apple doesn't want to share that data with Facebook. But they (Apple) still track users.

4BynHmBFUxBD 3y ago
Apple also has their own burgeoning ad business…
- theshrike79 3y ago
  "Burgeoning" :D Apple made $2B from ads in 2022 from a total of $394 billion, 0,5% of total revenue. Google made $224 billion from ads about 50% of total. I still trust the company that makes the vast majority of their money from stuff that doesn't need a profile about me and my personal life to function.
  - 4BynHmBFUxBD 3y ago
    Totally agree. I own Apple products (iPhone and Mac) for that reason. It’s something to keep an eye on though.

matheusmoreira 3y ago

The ultimate negotiating position is law. Simply make what they're doing illegal until it stops happening. Computing freedom must be enshrined into law. It doesn't matter how much money it costs them.

Gigachad 3y ago
Ok, that's still an option. At any moment governments could step in, but they haven't. So rather than waiting forever while being abused by companies, I'm going to buy an iphone and have a nice experience now.
- matheusmoreira 3y ago
  It's the only option. It's either that or give up. Look at Android. It's honestly a piece of shit but at least we were in control. Well, not anymore: now apps can use remote attestation to see if you "tampered" with your own device. So you're not in control anymore because if you exercise that control you get locked out of every service. Hell my fucking bank's app complains and refuses to run if I have developer mode turned on. Might as well choose the better kept garden if it's gonna be like this. I decided to buy a Pixel and run GrapheneOS because I literally can't live without Termux anymore but I definitely understand your point.