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One thing I don't quite understand is how the CEO first claims that only 3% of the user base is using 3rd party apps, and then later claims that "And the opport

One thing I don't quite understand is how the CEO first claims that only 3% of the user base is using 3rd party apps, and then later claims that "And the opportunity cost of not having those users (3rd part app users) on our platform, on our advertising platform, is really significant" (from https://www.npr.org/2023/06/15/1182457366/reddit-ceo-steve-huffman-its-time-we-grow-up-and-behave-like-an-adult-company https://www.npr.org/2023/06/15/1182457366/reddit-ceo-steve-h... ) Is that 3% of the user base really having such a big impact so it's worth all this drama and continue to alienate the users of the platform?

flutas 3y ago
That 3% probably consists of a majority of the 1% who post content, and the .1% who moderate content. Without either of those, the site becomes stale and overrun by trash content.
- capableweb 3y ago
  He also claimed most mods don't use 3rd party apps: > Huffman said 97% of Reddit users do not use any third-party apps to browse the site. He said "the vast majority" of moderators also do not rely on third-party apps.
  - galleywest200 3y ago
    Most mods seem to use the old.reddit.com website, possibly utilizing Mod Toolbox as well. It seems most mods do not use an app for moderating at all.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - flutas 3y ago
    The big issue is you can hide a lot in statements like that. I can't find super trustworthy numbers (and I can't verify this due to that), but if there are about 3.4m subs and only 140k of them are active, every single active sub could have a mod that uses a 3rd party app and you could still claim "the vast majority" don't use them. I also find it fairly interesting he would quote a percentage for users, but not for mods. [0]: https://www.businessdit.com/how-many-subreddits-are-there/ https://www.businessdit.com/how-many-subreddits-are-there/
    - margalabargala 3y ago
      Yeah there's a lot of different ways to count something like that to get the result you want. Torture the numbers and they will confess.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
Karellen 3y ago
I suppose it depends how active that 3% of the userbase is. If those 3% of users are responsible for e.g. 20% of the page views, and therefore potentially 20% of ad placements, maybe they are really having a big impact?
- capableweb 3y ago
  Isn't most of the income (or all?) for reddit from ads and awards? So the people actively adding value/content gets punished, while the amount of people seeing ads remain the same? Seems even more crazy if true then.
itsthecourier 3y ago
I use reddit a lot and I hate all these blackouts. I pay reddit premium because I like what the platform gives me back.
- midoridensha 3y ago
  Sounds like you're interested in volunteering your time to be a mod then, right?
  - itsthecourier 3y ago
    They can stop modding, but they shouldn't close the door when they leave.
mellow-lake-day 3y ago
Was that number taken during the blackout period? Without any more context that is a completely meaningless number.
hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
I have never used any third party apps, and I primarily used old.reddit.com on mobile to browse Reddit. Yet this whole brouhaha got me to delete all my posts going back years, delete my accounts, and block reddit on my phone. To start, I think reddit management has just acted like total douchebags throughout this whole event, and I'm not interested in supporting that. More importantly, though, the majority of time I spend on reddit is just a bad habit that I'm happy to now be breaking. All these social media companies are basically just "the drug dealer planet" from my favorite episode of Star Trek TNG: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbiosis_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbiosis_(Star_Trek:_The_Ne... Truth be told, we don't need it, and in many ways are better off without it.
realusername 3y ago
It's just pure corporate BS, Reddit never even tried to make ads available from the API in the first place. If that was such a problem, they would at least have tried something. Then ads are half abandoned even on their official platform itself, they polished the avatar NFTs instead... Reddit has probably the most outdated ad market of all the social networks and they cannot blame third party apps for that.
LittleShaman 3y ago
Could you share a source for the 3% number? I only managed to find an AMA post about 3% of *mod actions" coming from third party apps: https://old.reddit.com/r/reddit/comments/145bram/addressing_the_community_about_changes_to_our_api/ https://old.reddit.com/r/reddit/comments/145bram/addressing_...
- capableweb 3y ago
  It's from the same article: > Huffman said 97% of Reddit users do not use any third-party apps to browse the site. https://www.npr.org/2023/06/15/1182457366/reddit-ceo-steve-huffman-its-time-we-grow-up-and-behave-like-an-adult-company https://www.npr.org/2023/06/15/1182457366/reddit-ceo-steve-h...
squintychino 3y ago
> One thing I don't quite understand is how the CEO first claims that only 3% of the user base is using 3rd party apps, and then later claims that "And the opportunity cost of not having those users (3rd part app users) on our platform, on our advertising platform, is really significant" People lie. It's really that simple. They give no data to back up their statistics, and we're expected to believe it as truth since they are in a position of power.
jasondozell 3y ago
I guess because future plans could be negated via 3rd party apps. Getting rid of them now will ensure future plans can be enacted without risk they'll be circumvented.

flutas 3y ago

That 3% probably consists of a majority of the 1% who post content, and the .1% who moderate content. Without either of those, the site becomes stale and overrun by trash content.

capableweb 3y ago
He also claimed most mods don't use 3rd party apps: > Huffman said 97% of Reddit users do not use any third-party apps to browse the site. He said "the vast majority" of moderators also do not rely on third-party apps.
- galleywest200 3y ago
  Most mods seem to use the old.reddit.com website, possibly utilizing Mod Toolbox as well. It seems most mods do not use an app for moderating at all.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- flutas 3y ago
  The big issue is you can hide a lot in statements like that. I can't find super trustworthy numbers (and I can't verify this due to that), but if there are about 3.4m subs and only 140k of them are active, every single active sub could have a mod that uses a 3rd party app and you could still claim "the vast majority" don't use them. I also find it fairly interesting he would quote a percentage for users, but not for mods. [0]: https://www.businessdit.com/how-many-subreddits-are-there/ https://www.businessdit.com/how-many-subreddits-are-there/
  - margalabargala 3y ago
    Yeah there's a lot of different ways to count something like that to get the result you want. Torture the numbers and they will confess.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

Karellen 3y ago

I suppose it depends how active that 3% of the userbase is. If those 3% of users are responsible for e.g. 20% of the page views, and therefore potentially 20% of ad placements, maybe they are really having a big impact?

capableweb 3y ago
Isn't most of the income (or all?) for reddit from ads and awards? So the people actively adding value/content gets punished, while the amount of people seeing ads remain the same? Seems even more crazy if true then.

itsthecourier 3y ago

I use reddit a lot and I hate all these blackouts. I pay reddit premium because I like what the platform gives me back.

midoridensha 3y ago
Sounds like you're interested in volunteering your time to be a mod then, right?
- itsthecourier 3y ago
  They can stop modding, but they shouldn't close the door when they leave.

mellow-lake-day 3y ago

Was that number taken during the blackout period? Without any more context that is a completely meaningless number.

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago

I have never used any third party apps, and I primarily used old.reddit.com on mobile to browse Reddit. Yet this whole brouhaha got me to delete all my posts going back years, delete my accounts, and block reddit on my phone. To start, I think reddit management has just acted like total douchebags throughout this whole event, and I'm not interested in supporting that. More importantly, though, the majority of time I spend on reddit is just a bad habit that I'm happy to now be breaking. All these social media companies are basically just "the drug dealer planet" from my favorite episode of Star Trek TNG: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbiosis_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbiosis_(Star_Trek:_The_Ne... Truth be told, we don't need it, and in many ways are better off without it.

realusername 3y ago

It's just pure corporate BS, Reddit never even tried to make ads available from the API in the first place. If that was such a problem, they would at least have tried something. Then ads are half abandoned even on their official platform itself, they polished the avatar NFTs instead... Reddit has probably the most outdated ad market of all the social networks and they cannot blame third party apps for that.

LittleShaman 3y ago

Could you share a source for the 3% number? I only managed to find an AMA post about 3% of *mod actions" coming from third party apps: https://old.reddit.com/r/reddit/comments/145bram/addressing_the_community_about_changes_to_our_api/ https://old.reddit.com/r/reddit/comments/145bram/addressing_...

capableweb 3y ago
It's from the same article: > Huffman said 97% of Reddit users do not use any third-party apps to browse the site. https://www.npr.org/2023/06/15/1182457366/reddit-ceo-steve-huffman-its-time-we-grow-up-and-behave-like-an-adult-company https://www.npr.org/2023/06/15/1182457366/reddit-ceo-steve-h...

squintychino 3y ago

> One thing I don't quite understand is how the CEO first claims that only 3% of the user base is using 3rd party apps, and then later claims that "And the opportunity cost of not having those users (3rd part app users) on our platform, on our advertising platform, is really significant" People lie. It's really that simple. They give no data to back up their statistics, and we're expected to believe it as truth since they are in a position of power.

jasondozell 3y ago

I guess because future plans could be negated via 3rd party apps. Getting rid of them now will ensure future plans can be enacted without risk they'll be circumvented.