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This post is no less informative and no more political than, for example, this post on ACTA: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3620579 http://news.ycombinator
by ucee054 15y ago
This post is no less informative and no more political than, for example, this post on ACTA:
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3620579 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3620579
In my understanding it is in fact both acceptable under the guidelines and especially relevant to hackers and I will explain my reasoning on each point in order.
The post is acceptable under the guidelines because it is factual reporting about Palestine and Israel, which is important information that I do not believe would normally get reported in the US media. I have seen airplay of criticism (demonization even), mostly of the Palestinians but occasionally of the Israeli settlers, but not the facts.
I believe that the reason the facts about Palestine are suppressed is because of organized "Hasbara" (public relations) efforts by Israel's supporters in the USA. (Example link: http://www.hasbara.com/ http://www.hasbara.com/)
(I believe the factual record is one sidedly unflattering to Israel, so I believe that to be the Israeli motive.)
Otherwise I can't explain why there hasn't been more uproar about Israel's killing of US servicemen
(Link http://www.chicagotribune.com/services/newspaper/eedition/chi-liberty_tuesoct02,0,43090.story http://www.chicagotribune.com/services/newspaper/eedition/ch...)
Israel's attempted sale of US military secrets to China
(Links:
http://www.bigeye.com/041600.htm http://www.bigeye.com/041600.htm
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/motherofallscandals.php http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/motherofallscandal...)
or use of Israeli counterterrorism units against the "Occupy" movement
(Link:
http://www.alternet.org/story/153307/from_occupation_to_%E2%80%9Coccupy%E2%80%9D%3A_the_israelification_of_american_domestic_security/ http://www.alternet.org/story/153307/from_occupation_to_%E2%...)
This is important information because people who knew the facts might choose to act differently, for example in terms of career choice or investment choice.
For example, given the facts that I know about how Israel treats innocent Palestinian civilians, I have an ethical problem with Israel and do not intend to work for Israel, to buy Israeli products, to do business with Israel, to buy stock in companies that make investments in Israel, or otherwise enrich Israel in any way that I can avoid, directly or indirectly. I am not a customer of Starbucks or of Marks and Spencer for this reason.
This issue is particularly pertinent to hackers because startup funding, research and development and technology transfer depend greatly on the military industrial complex - which is particularly developed in Israel and very strongly connected to the US military industrial complex. For example, if one does graduate research in networking or communications systems at Cornell, one's algorithms and work just might end up being used inside Israeli weapons used against civilians.
Links:
http://mondoweiss.net/2011/12/israeli-university-bids-w-cornell-and-350-million-to-set-up-on-roosevelt-island-in-ny.html http://mondoweiss.net/2011/12/israeli-university-bids-w-corn...
http://www.redress.cc/americas/ldavidson20120102 http://www.redress.cc/americas/ldavidson20120102
It would be a shame if Hacker News guidelines become warped and misapplied as censorship tools for Hasbara and I am alarmed to see standard Hasbara talking points - such as 'The territories are "Disputed" not "Occupied"' - used to justify such censorship even on this page.
- otisfunkmeyer 15y agoI don't mean to hijack the thread, but being a big fan of Starbucks who would like to be a moral/ethical person, can you explain why you are not a customer of Starbucks or provide a link or two? Would be much appreciated thanks.
- ucee054 15y agoStarbucks's founder/CEO sends money to Israel. I don't want my coffee money to subsidize him doing that. http://www.bintjbeil.com/articles/en/020614_fisk_starbucks.html http://www.bintjbeil.com/articles/en/020614_fisk_starbucks.h... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Schultz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Schultz
- alan_cx 15y agoAnd Marks and Spencer?
- ucee054 15y agoM&S hawks Israeli produce: http://www.boycott-israel.co.uk/business-links/133-marks-and-spencer http://www.boycott-israel.co.uk/business-links/133-marks-and... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marks_%26_Spencer#cite_note-53 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marks_%26_Spencer#cite_note-53 Unfortunately I can't refer you to a comprehensive information source on companies supporting Israel, but you might find more information by googling for "jews for boycotting israeli goods" or "boycott divestment sanctions" I did find references to several other companies at http://www.inminds.com/boycott-israel-2012.php http://www.inminds.com/boycott-israel-2012.php
- berntb 15y agoSigh... I flagged the article. Please keep stories like this off HN, it is bad enough with the language wars people. (I follow the Middle East conflict a bit, because it is informative to compare my Swedish media with BBC/NY Times. News items such as Pallywood or torture between Palestinian groups are literally censored.) The basic reason I started to care a bit is because I find it depressing when people hate and demonize a whole democracy with very heterogeneous political life. Especially if said people never criticise neither rocket artillery against cities nor the glorifying of bombing/shooting children at close range. (No, it is not the Israeli side that do that.) I have also never seen any criticism from these people of the Arab world's way of destroying the Palestinian refugees' lives, by refusing to integrate them. This is arguably worse than anything Israel has done, even in your description of Israel. And to start talking about organised Jewish propaganda controlling a country's media is straight up disgusting. It smacks of the muslim world's copying of traditional anti semitic hate propaganda. Then we have the muslim world's support of the mass murders in south Sudan, which in number of dead etc must be a thousand times worse than even your description of Israel. Talk about astronomical double standards for different groups... I could continue for a while, but this won't change your opinions. You "know" that it is OK to ignore racist hate propaganda etc etc, since it is done against the evil ones.