4 ms·

There was some strange stuff when Christianity was new. The Gnostics? alone are something.

atourgates 3y ago
Gnosticism was wild! But also kind of makes sense in the context of plenty of contemporary cults/religions/conspiracy theories that appeal to their adherents on the basis of “I have secret knowledge that you don’t.” On the other hand, the more I learn about early Christian “heresies” like Marcionism (the supreme beings described in the old and new testaments were not the same) or Arianism (that when the New Testament described Jesus as being begotten by God the Father, it’s reasonable to hold a doctrine that Jesus was created at some point and didn’t always exist). Which is all to say that the historical study of the development of early Christianity is a lot like other fields of historical study, where you find things they are both very familiar and strange to your modern worldview, with a special personal twist if you happened to be raised in a Christian tradition.
- bloomingeek 3y ago
  Such a great response! Currently I'm reading a book titled: "Fatal Discord". It's about the Reformation, which I've read a lot about, and the arguments that Martin Luther was having with Erasmus. (The history of Erasmus is fairly new to me.) 1500's Christianity was tragic and dangerous, to say the least. Another disturbing thing is we're still fighting the religious wars, just in a different way. As a former evangelical, but still a devoted Christian, there are some similarities between what went on then and what's happening now, tragically.
- alisonatwork 3y ago
  My favorite heresy is the view that many prophecies in Revelation and the Gospels already happened, and in fact happened within a few decades of Jesus' death. That is, the end times should be understood in the local context of the people of Roman Judea and their defeat in the siege of Jerusalem. The subsequent spread of Christianity was the second coming. This makes for a less mythological and more politically interesting view of scripture. I suppose the reason why this view never really took off is because the idea that some divine pay-off is just round the corner is a compelling hook. Not sure the religion would be as successful if it was just branded as the story of a guy on the other side of the world who was an inspiration to his people 2000 years ago.
  - atourgates 3y ago
    I’d even say that the scholarly consensus on Revelation goes a bit further: that it was written as a type of political commentary on current events. Also interesting to note that Revelation was nearly rejected for canonization because it depicts Christians in heaven continually feasting, while asceticism and a life of poverty were hallmarks of Christianity at the time. Wild to compare those values to the “prosperity” gospel of today. If you’re interested in the history and development of Revelation, I’d recommend Bart Ehrman’s Great Courses lecture[1], or his Podcast episodes on the topic[2]. [1] https://archive.org/details/BartEhrman-TheHistoryOfTheBibleTheMakingOfTheNewTestamentCanon https://archive.org/details/BartEhrman-TheHistoryOfTheBibleT... [2] https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-book-of-revelation-and-the-end-of-the/id1650657462?i=1000599490312 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-book-of-revelation...
    - alisonatwork 3y ago
      Thanks for linking this course, it's great!

Gnosticism was wild! But also kind of makes sense in the context of plenty of contemporary cults/religions/conspiracy theories that appeal to their adherents on the basis of “I have secret knowledge that you don’t.” On the other hand, the more I learn about early Christian “heresies” like Marcionism (the supreme beings described in the old and new testaments were not the same) or Arianism (that when the New Testament described Jesus as being begotten by God the Father, it’s reasonable to hold a doctrine that Jesus was created at some point and didn’t always exist). Which is all to say that the historical study of the development of early Christianity is a lot like other fields of historical study, where you find things they are both very familiar and strange to your modern worldview, with a special personal twist if you happened to be raised in a Christian tradition.

bloomingeek 3y ago
Such a great response! Currently I'm reading a book titled: "Fatal Discord". It's about the Reformation, which I've read a lot about, and the arguments that Martin Luther was having with Erasmus. (The history of Erasmus is fairly new to me.) 1500's Christianity was tragic and dangerous, to say the least. Another disturbing thing is we're still fighting the religious wars, just in a different way. As a former evangelical, but still a devoted Christian, there are some similarities between what went on then and what's happening now, tragically.
alisonatwork 3y ago
My favorite heresy is the view that many prophecies in Revelation and the Gospels already happened, and in fact happened within a few decades of Jesus' death. That is, the end times should be understood in the local context of the people of Roman Judea and their defeat in the siege of Jerusalem. The subsequent spread of Christianity was the second coming. This makes for a less mythological and more politically interesting view of scripture. I suppose the reason why this view never really took off is because the idea that some divine pay-off is just round the corner is a compelling hook. Not sure the religion would be as successful if it was just branded as the story of a guy on the other side of the world who was an inspiration to his people 2000 years ago.
- atourgates 3y ago
  I’d even say that the scholarly consensus on Revelation goes a bit further: that it was written as a type of political commentary on current events. Also interesting to note that Revelation was nearly rejected for canonization because it depicts Christians in heaven continually feasting, while asceticism and a life of poverty were hallmarks of Christianity at the time. Wild to compare those values to the “prosperity” gospel of today. If you’re interested in the history and development of Revelation, I’d recommend Bart Ehrman’s Great Courses lecture[1], or his Podcast episodes on the topic[2]. [1] https://archive.org/details/BartEhrman-TheHistoryOfTheBibleTheMakingOfTheNewTestamentCanon https://archive.org/details/BartEhrman-TheHistoryOfTheBibleT... [2] https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-book-of-revelation-and-the-end-of-the/id1650657462?i=1000599490312 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-book-of-revelation...
  - alisonatwork 3y ago
    Thanks for linking this course, it's great!