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uTox – Lightweight Tox Client

peter_d_sherman 3y ago
Related: List of Tox clients: https://tox.chat/clients.html https://tox.chat/clients.html What is Tox? https://tox.chat/about.html https://tox.chat/about.html Tox library source code: https://github.com/TokTok/c-toxcore https://github.com/TokTok/c-toxcore (Note that I am not interested in the security/cryptography aspects of Tox (if it is indeed secure -- which is questionable/unproven to me at this point in time) -- I am interested in the ability to write Chat/Voice/Video apps around the library (basically apps like Skype, Signal, etc.) To that purpose, Tox (and the tox clients) provide an interesting and potentially very useful source code base...)
- JohnTHaller 3y ago
  It seems like only one of those Tox clients is still being somewhat actively maintained. uTox hasn't been updated in a couple years. qTox in about a year. Toxygen 3 years. aTox still has commits though over a year since a release. Toxic had commits and a release a few months ago.
- e2le 3y ago
  Is there any desktop client actively developed? Seems like a dire situation for tox.
grayhatter 3y ago
Hi, former (current) uTox coder/maintainer. uTox has been dormant for some time. And while I'm mostly proud of it and still completely standby uTox. Tox isn't the easiest messaging protocol to use. Not hard but not easy, user beware :) Kinda shocked to see it on HN given the last commit date, but I'm happy to answer questions all the same. Bonus suggestion: My friend is still working on aTox https://github.com/evilcorpltd/aTox/ https://github.com/evilcorpltd/aTox/ (Tox for android) and it's an easy recommendation to make. The client is awesome, and if you're gonna use a messenger, it probably should be from your phone :)
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- bboygravity 3y ago
  AFAIK Tox allows for direct p2p connections between devices (no server in between). How does it get through NATs/firewalls/other to achieve this? Does it "cheat" like Bittorrent and Syncthing by using relays/trackers or another type of server to establish connections? And if so how does it solve this problem?
  - grayhatter 3y ago
    In cases with poorly behaved NATs it'll start with a TCP connection to a node willing to relay a packet to a friend. Then it'll attempt to hole punch to reach your friend/peer. I'm not sure I'd call it cheating but I assume that's the same thing you're talking about. Both clients need to attempt to connect to each other to get udp nat hole punching to work. So I guess yes? If it can't, it will fall back to TCP and relays, so it will totally cheat using relays if it has to :)
- Semaphor 3y ago
  > and if you're gonna use a messenger, it probably should be from your phone It’s my least favorite place to use a messenger from, I even completely refused WhatsApp until they had a stable desktop client.
  - grayhatter 3y ago
    yeah, I feel you on that one. But I'd much rather be able to continue conversations when I leave my desk. So if assuming you can only pick one... I'd definitely rather use desktop, but I'd be less annoyed if my only choice, was mobile
woodruffw 3y ago
See also this somewhat infamous thread on Tox's cryptographic design[1]. [1]: https://github.com/TokTok/c-toxcore/issues/426 https://github.com/TokTok/c-toxcore/issues/426
- upofadown 3y ago
  This blog post linked from the issue is a much easier read: * https://blog.tox.chat/2023/03/redesign-of-toxs-cryptographic-handshake/ https://blog.tox.chat/2023/03/redesign-of-toxs-cryptographic...
noitpmeder 3y ago
Did anyone else read this and think about the tox python suite? https://tox.wiki/en/latest/ https://tox.wiki/en/latest/
udunadan 3y ago
For anybody interested in p2p secure messaging, there is an interesting, relatively young project http://cwtch.im/ http://cwtch.im/ aiming to be a metadata-resistant, decentralized messenger. The UX is a bit clunky and I definitely am not going to try forcing my friends using it (as I do with Signal), but for tech-savvy communication this definitely looks promising.
s0l1dsnak3123 3y ago
I've used tuntox (https://github.com/gjedeer/tuntox https://github.com/gjedeer/tuntox) with Emacs' CRDT.el (https://elpa.gnu.org/packages/crdt.html https://elpa.gnu.org/packages/crdt.html) to setup serverless collaborative editing between Emacs users. It works quite well for pairing and is much smoother than video calling on dodgy networks.
username923409 3y ago
My favourite part of Tox is the fact that you don't need to supply any information to start chatting, unlike e.g. Telegram and Signal. Unfortunately Tox is extremely unpopular/unknown compared to those other platforms, so it's harder to get people to use it.
plantroon 3y ago
As a heavy Matrix/Synapse user, I just use the tox bridge to matrix (mx-puppet-tox). I need access to messaging from multiple devices and Tox doesn't make this easy iirc.

Related: List of Tox clients: https://tox.chat/clients.html https://tox.chat/clients.html What is Tox? https://tox.chat/about.html https://tox.chat/about.html Tox library source code: https://github.com/TokTok/c-toxcore https://github.com/TokTok/c-toxcore (Note that I am not interested in the security/cryptography aspects of Tox (if it is indeed secure -- which is questionable/unproven to me at this point in time) -- I am interested in the ability to write Chat/Voice/Video apps around the library (basically apps like Skype, Signal, etc.) To that purpose, Tox (and the tox clients) provide an interesting and potentially very useful source code base...)

JohnTHaller 3y ago
It seems like only one of those Tox clients is still being somewhat actively maintained. uTox hasn't been updated in a couple years. qTox in about a year. Toxygen 3 years. aTox still has commits though over a year since a release. Toxic had commits and a release a few months ago.
e2le 3y ago
Is there any desktop client actively developed? Seems like a dire situation for tox.

grayhatter 3y ago

Hi, former (current) uTox coder/maintainer. uTox has been dormant for some time. And while I'm mostly proud of it and still completely standby uTox. Tox isn't the easiest messaging protocol to use. Not hard but not easy, user beware :) Kinda shocked to see it on HN given the last commit date, but I'm happy to answer questions all the same. Bonus suggestion: My friend is still working on aTox https://github.com/evilcorpltd/aTox/ https://github.com/evilcorpltd/aTox/ (Tox for android) and it's an easy recommendation to make. The client is awesome, and if you're gonna use a messenger, it probably should be from your phone :)

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
bboygravity 3y ago
AFAIK Tox allows for direct p2p connections between devices (no server in between). How does it get through NATs/firewalls/other to achieve this? Does it "cheat" like Bittorrent and Syncthing by using relays/trackers or another type of server to establish connections? And if so how does it solve this problem?
- grayhatter 3y ago
  In cases with poorly behaved NATs it'll start with a TCP connection to a node willing to relay a packet to a friend. Then it'll attempt to hole punch to reach your friend/peer. I'm not sure I'd call it cheating but I assume that's the same thing you're talking about. Both clients need to attempt to connect to each other to get udp nat hole punching to work. So I guess yes? If it can't, it will fall back to TCP and relays, so it will totally cheat using relays if it has to :)
Semaphor 3y ago
> and if you're gonna use a messenger, it probably should be from your phone It’s my least favorite place to use a messenger from, I even completely refused WhatsApp until they had a stable desktop client.
- grayhatter 3y ago
  yeah, I feel you on that one. But I'd much rather be able to continue conversations when I leave my desk. So if assuming you can only pick one... I'd definitely rather use desktop, but I'd be less annoyed if my only choice, was mobile

woodruffw 3y ago

See also this somewhat infamous thread on Tox's cryptographic design[1]. [1]: https://github.com/TokTok/c-toxcore/issues/426 https://github.com/TokTok/c-toxcore/issues/426

upofadown 3y ago
This blog post linked from the issue is a much easier read: * https://blog.tox.chat/2023/03/redesign-of-toxs-cryptographic-handshake/ https://blog.tox.chat/2023/03/redesign-of-toxs-cryptographic...

noitpmeder 3y ago

Did anyone else read this and think about the tox python suite? https://tox.wiki/en/latest/ https://tox.wiki/en/latest/

udunadan 3y ago

For anybody interested in p2p secure messaging, there is an interesting, relatively young project http://cwtch.im/ http://cwtch.im/ aiming to be a metadata-resistant, decentralized messenger. The UX is a bit clunky and I definitely am not going to try forcing my friends using it (as I do with Signal), but for tech-savvy communication this definitely looks promising.

s0l1dsnak3123 3y ago

I've used tuntox (https://github.com/gjedeer/tuntox https://github.com/gjedeer/tuntox) with Emacs' CRDT.el (https://elpa.gnu.org/packages/crdt.html https://elpa.gnu.org/packages/crdt.html) to setup serverless collaborative editing between Emacs users. It works quite well for pairing and is much smoother than video calling on dodgy networks.

username923409 3y ago

My favourite part of Tox is the fact that you don't need to supply any information to start chatting, unlike e.g. Telegram and Signal. Unfortunately Tox is extremely unpopular/unknown compared to those other platforms, so it's harder to get people to use it.

plantroon 3y ago

As a heavy Matrix/Synapse user, I just use the tox bridge to matrix (mx-puppet-tox). I need access to messaging from multiple devices and Tox doesn't make this easy iirc.