4 ms·

Actually though, is SEO/spam so out of control that allegedly the best software engineers in the world are unable to counter it? Are bad results actually good

Actually though, is SEO/spam so out of control that allegedly the best software engineers in the world are unable to counter it? Are bad results actually good for google in some perverse ad-based way? Do people at google actually use their products at all?

ignite 3y ago
The best software engineers in the world are generating it. It pays better than google.
dageshi 3y ago
It's not that they can't counter it, it's that there's less and less to find...
- Filligree 3y ago
  A bit of A, a bit of B. More and more of the interesting information is never put on a permanent, accessible website.
- buildbot 3y ago
  It’s hard to find old things too that are still there, for queries that used to work just fine.
- waif 3y ago
  I dunno. I have a blog with niche info, but it doesn't even show up before page 10 or whatever. But technically, it's still indexed... Search engines lost. With ChatGPT it's about to get 10x worse. We could switch back to manual human-curated web directories, or website link lists.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  I don't think so. One of the things that made me start avoiding google was that it had developed a really huge blind spot for great sites that aren't "name brand". They're still there, but google won't tell you about them.
xeonmc 3y ago
I wonder if LLMs can serve as an adaptive filter against SEO to keep up with the arms race?
- BasedAnon 3y ago
  No, LLMs are just being used to generate better blogspam now.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
pacerier 3y ago
- Google already put ads on search, thus incentivized to show users the best results. - But this must be balanced with other incentives, like upranking links that also display ads good for the bottom line. (And up/downranking stuff to maximize its "value" (eg data collection), at users' expense.) - re "best software engineers in the world"; Firstly, Google (200k pax corp with national interests) has optimized itself to lowrisk recruiting, thus having a heavy "careerists" bias builtin by design ("best software engineer" is definitely nowhere near the top priority of its hiring rulebook). Which corresponds to a very low % of mentioned group. Also https://sockpuppet.org/blog/2015/03/06/the-hiring-post/ https://sockpuppet.org/blog/2015/03/06/the-hiring-post/ Obligatory venn diagram here: https://i.stack.imgur.com/GN2Rl.png https://i.stack.imgur.com/GN2Rl.png. ( You'd think ppl such as Satoshi will pass the Google interviews? What about Linus and etc? ) ( Not to mention plenty of weirdos (like Ciro on SO) would be banned from interviews regardless of skill level; and plenty of best engineers are weirdos )
beefield 3y ago
I don't know about ability but it is obvious they are not willing to even try. Why? If search result quality was anywhere in their radar, there would be a button next to all search results letting me block the domain from my personal search results. One day they might even figure how to use the information about blocked domains to help ranking results while not being gamed.
- occamrazor 3y ago
  Some years ago there was the option to remove a domain from search results (I don’t remember if it was a default or an option). Google removed it without giving a reason. I assume that it was not working as expected. But the web has changed in these years. It would be interesting to have it again.
  - Prickle 3y ago
    Wait, really? I still use the basic -websitename to exclude websites when I search.
sshine 3y ago
> Are bad results actually good for google in some perverse ad-based way? Not when you frame it like that. But I always google when I need to buy something. And when I search for anything non-commercial, I use a private search engine. Google is good for search results which generate money, e.g. when you intend to buy things.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  > Google is good for search results which generate money, e.g. when you intend to buy things. I think how true that is depends on where you want to buy from. Google is good at referring you to certain other websites to buy from. If you're looking for broader search results than that, it's not really any better than for other sorts of searches (at least, that's how it was a couple of years ago).
machiaweliczny 3y ago
They could build Bard, they can have ML model to judge if site is SEO spam but the more you click/search the more money for them.

ignite 3y ago

The best software engineers in the world are generating it. It pays better than google.

dageshi 3y ago

It's not that they can't counter it, it's that there's less and less to find...

Filligree 3y ago
A bit of A, a bit of B. More and more of the interesting information is never put on a permanent, accessible website.
buildbot 3y ago
It’s hard to find old things too that are still there, for queries that used to work just fine.
waif 3y ago
I dunno. I have a blog with niche info, but it doesn't even show up before page 10 or whatever. But technically, it's still indexed... Search engines lost. With ChatGPT it's about to get 10x worse. We could switch back to manual human-curated web directories, or website link lists.
JohnFen 3y ago
I don't think so. One of the things that made me start avoiding google was that it had developed a really huge blind spot for great sites that aren't "name brand". They're still there, but google won't tell you about them.

xeonmc 3y ago

I wonder if LLMs can serve as an adaptive filter against SEO to keep up with the arms race?

BasedAnon 3y ago
No, LLMs are just being used to generate better blogspam now.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

pacerier 3y ago

- Google already put ads on search, thus incentivized to show users the best results. - But this must be balanced with other incentives, like upranking links that also display ads good for the bottom line. (And up/downranking stuff to maximize its "value" (eg data collection), at users' expense.) - re "best software engineers in the world"; Firstly, Google (200k pax corp with national interests) has optimized itself to lowrisk recruiting, thus having a heavy "careerists" bias builtin by design ("best software engineer" is definitely nowhere near the top priority of its hiring rulebook). Which corresponds to a very low % of mentioned group. Also https://sockpuppet.org/blog/2015/03/06/the-hiring-post/ https://sockpuppet.org/blog/2015/03/06/the-hiring-post/ Obligatory venn diagram here: https://i.stack.imgur.com/GN2Rl.png https://i.stack.imgur.com/GN2Rl.png. ( You'd think ppl such as Satoshi will pass the Google interviews? What about Linus and etc? ) ( Not to mention plenty of weirdos (like Ciro on SO) would be banned from interviews regardless of skill level; and plenty of best engineers are weirdos )

beefield 3y ago

I don't know about ability but it is obvious they are not willing to even try. Why? If search result quality was anywhere in their radar, there would be a button next to all search results letting me block the domain from my personal search results. One day they might even figure how to use the information about blocked domains to help ranking results while not being gamed.

occamrazor 3y ago
Some years ago there was the option to remove a domain from search results (I don’t remember if it was a default or an option). Google removed it without giving a reason. I assume that it was not working as expected. But the web has changed in these years. It would be interesting to have it again.
- Prickle 3y ago
  Wait, really? I still use the basic -websitename to exclude websites when I search.

sshine 3y ago

> Are bad results actually good for google in some perverse ad-based way? Not when you frame it like that. But I always google when I need to buy something. And when I search for anything non-commercial, I use a private search engine. Google is good for search results which generate money, e.g. when you intend to buy things.

JohnFen 3y ago
> Google is good for search results which generate money, e.g. when you intend to buy things. I think how true that is depends on where you want to buy from. Google is good at referring you to certain other websites to buy from. If you're looking for broader search results than that, it's not really any better than for other sorts of searches (at least, that's how it was a couple of years ago).

machiaweliczny 3y ago

They could build Bard, they can have ML model to judge if site is SEO spam but the more you click/search the more money for them.