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> These people should be thrown in jail, not allowed to roam the streets harassing everyone. Do you know how much jails cost? More than homeless shelters, inde

by lapcat 3y ago

> These people should be thrown in jail, not allowed to roam the streets harassing everyone. Do you know how much jails cost? More than homeless shelters, indeed more than homes, more than libraries, more than schools. Locking people up is the worst, least efficient solution to our problems.

simonsarris 3y ago
Actually, for stopping librarians being sexually assaulted jail works really well. It is the most efficient solution out of the ones you've proffered as less expensive, because those do not solve the problem at hand.
- lapcat 3y ago
  > Actually, for stopping librarians being sexually assaulted jail works really well. Does it? Are you proposing a lifetime sentence for all homeless people, with no possibility of parole? Otherwise, people get out of jail eventually, and then what? Moreover, rising housing prices produce more and more homeless, so there's a supply issue. The least expensive solution would likely be to just give homes to the homeless. And guess what, it's actually significantly easier to get a job if you have a home, because a home gives you a home address (try putting "none" on a job application), a shower, a closet to put work clothes, a decent night's sleep, etc. As a society, however, we've decided that we're not interested in the least expensive solution, because we don't want to eliminate homelessness, we want to punish homelessness. Giving homes to the homeless would not allow us to be judgmental against the homeless, and that seems to be a very high priority for a lot of people.
friend_and_foe 3y ago
So you think those of us normal people using those facilities should tolerate violent behavior to save money? Why do we even have jails then?
- lapcat 3y ago
  > So you think those of us normal people using those facilities should tolerate violent behavior to save money? No. From the article: "building more social housing, hiring more social workers, investing in mental health workers, schools, community centres, and everything else needed to address problems before they reach the library’s doors." > Why do we even have jails then? Good question. They don't seem to be working very well. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/incarceration-rates-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/incarcera... Top 10 Countries with the most people in prison 1. United States — 2,068,800 2. China — 1,690,000 Top 10 Countries with the highest rate of incarceration per 100,000 population 1. United States — 629 2. Rwanda — 580 How many more people do we have to lock up to "solve" our social problems?
  - friend_and_foe 3y ago
    I'm responding to your examples of cheaper than jail options, specifically homeless shelters, libraries, schools. Those spaces, including homeless shelters, are for us regular, normal, nonviolent people to use when we need to. I'm not responding to the article, I'm responding to you. I'm not worried about your average homeless guy. A shelter, some housing, something like that will do fine. We need to do something about those problems and help those people. What would you do with a naked guy who hasn't showered in 3 weeks walking around the library with a piece of glass in his hand threatening to potentially cut someone? I don't like jail either, but I'm at a loss as to what you do with them. What do you have in mind?
    - lapcat 3y ago
      > I'm not worried about your average homeless guy. A shelter, some housing, something like that will do fine. We need to do something about those problems and help those people. You should be worried, though, because there aren't even enough homeless shelters. People are going to the library because they have nowhere else to go. From the article: "Some branches are open later than other social services, and most shelters in Toronto had been full anyway, so library workers were often asked to do the impossible—find shelter for someone in a system that often had no room. “When people come to us at the eleventh hour, when we’re closing, and they say, ‘Can you help me find a bed for tonight?’ we call Central Intake, and they’re at 100 percent capacity."

by lapcat 3y ago

simonsarris 3y ago

Actually, for stopping librarians being sexually assaulted jail works really well. It is the most efficient solution out of the ones you've proffered as less expensive, because those do not solve the problem at hand.

lapcat 3y ago
> Actually, for stopping librarians being sexually assaulted jail works really well. Does it? Are you proposing a lifetime sentence for all homeless people, with no possibility of parole? Otherwise, people get out of jail eventually, and then what? Moreover, rising housing prices produce more and more homeless, so there's a supply issue. The least expensive solution would likely be to just give homes to the homeless. And guess what, it's actually significantly easier to get a job if you have a home, because a home gives you a home address (try putting "none" on a job application), a shower, a closet to put work clothes, a decent night's sleep, etc. As a society, however, we've decided that we're not interested in the least expensive solution, because we don't want to eliminate homelessness, we want to punish homelessness. Giving homes to the homeless would not allow us to be judgmental against the homeless, and that seems to be a very high priority for a lot of people.

friend_and_foe 3y ago

So you think those of us normal people using those facilities should tolerate violent behavior to save money? Why do we even have jails then?

lapcat 3y ago
> So you think those of us normal people using those facilities should tolerate violent behavior to save money? No. From the article: "building more social housing, hiring more social workers, investing in mental health workers, schools, community centres, and everything else needed to address problems before they reach the library’s doors." > Why do we even have jails then? Good question. They don't seem to be working very well. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/incarceration-rates-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/incarcera... Top 10 Countries with the most people in prison 1. United States — 2,068,800 2. China — 1,690,000 Top 10 Countries with the highest rate of incarceration per 100,000 population 1. United States — 629 2. Rwanda — 580 How many more people do we have to lock up to "solve" our social problems?
- friend_and_foe 3y ago
  I'm responding to your examples of cheaper than jail options, specifically homeless shelters, libraries, schools. Those spaces, including homeless shelters, are for us regular, normal, nonviolent people to use when we need to. I'm not responding to the article, I'm responding to you. I'm not worried about your average homeless guy. A shelter, some housing, something like that will do fine. We need to do something about those problems and help those people. What would you do with a naked guy who hasn't showered in 3 weeks walking around the library with a piece of glass in his hand threatening to potentially cut someone? I don't like jail either, but I'm at a loss as to what you do with them. What do you have in mind?
  - lapcat 3y ago
    > I'm not worried about your average homeless guy. A shelter, some housing, something like that will do fine. We need to do something about those problems and help those people. You should be worried, though, because there aren't even enough homeless shelters. People are going to the library because they have nowhere else to go. From the article: "Some branches are open later than other social services, and most shelters in Toronto had been full anyway, so library workers were often asked to do the impossible—find shelter for someone in a system that often had no room. “When people come to us at the eleventh hour, when we’re closing, and they say, ‘Can you help me find a bed for tonight?’ we call Central Intake, and they’re at 100 percent capacity."