4 ms·

It's also the cities for which housing is most unaffordable.

by klyrs 3y ago

WalterBright 3y ago
Seattle has a levy on the ballot for a massive increase in property taxes in order to make housing more affordable. I am not making this up.
- RugnirViking 3y ago
  I don't think property tax factors much at all into land price. Else wouldn't land price be relatively consistent across locations with same tax systems
  - WalterBright 3y ago
    It factors very much into the rent price. Lots of people think the property tax is paid by the landlord, and think increasing it sticks it to the landlord, but it is paid by the renters.
- zdragnar 3y ago
  See also California in 2009 had a proposal in their budget for a $1.2 million commission to promote the blueberry industry- paid for by a new tax specifically on blueberries.
- klyrs 3y ago
  A levy of 45 cents per $1000, which according to the seattle times: > The bulk of money raised from the new levy, $707 million, would go toward the construction of new subsidized rental homes and improvements to aging affordable apartments. Those programs are focused on housing for people making 60% of area median income or less, about $74,000 a year for a family of three. Nearly two-thirds of the funding would fund housing for those making even less, 30% of area median income or $37,000 for a family of three. The current levy (passed in 2016) is 25 cents per $1000. A tax of a few hundred dollars per year on a million dollar home isn't making an impact on housing affordability. Expanding the availability of affordable housing might. I'm skeptical that $707M is enough to make a dent.
  - ianburrell 3y ago
    The total Seattle property tax is $8.29 per $1000. $.20 is a massive 2% increase.
    - WalterBright 3y ago
      $707 million is a massive amount of money.
      - klyrs 3y ago
        That's projected over 7 years, so $101 million per year. The city's annual budget is nearly 6 billion dollars. While $707 million sounds big, it's quite small relatively speaking. If you'd rather criminalize homelessness, build prisons and courts, employ more cops and prosecutors and prison guards, and defense lawyers for the inevitable lawsuits that arise from inhumane treatment, you might want to work up a budget for all that. And tell me where the money is going to come from, in a state with no income tax.
        WalterBright 3y ago
        The state gets plenty of money in taxes. So does the city - nearly 6 billion dollars.
        klyrs 3y ago
        Define "plenty." So far your argument has taken the form "this is a big number." It isn't convincing.
      - ianburrell 3y ago
        The tax is $970 million over 7 years, with $707 million for buying and maintaining housing. Remember that each apartment costs something like $200K. That covers acquiring the estimated 3400 apartments plus maintenance for existing ones. The levy is an order of magnitude too small to fix problem. King County has 40,000 homeless. Also, I don't think the levy is for chronic homeless since it doesn't have programs to help them. The problem may be too big for local government and needs federal government to help out.
- vkou 3y ago
  When you buy a house, what you pay for it is determined by the mortgage you can afford. If interest rates go down, house prices go up. If property taxes go down, house prices go up. If property taxes go up, house prices go down. In the long term, it's a net wash. That and the people on the boundary of homelessness are renters, not homeowners. Rents are set by what the market will bear, not by what it costs the landlord to own the property.
  - WalterBright 3y ago
    > Rents are set by what the market will bear, not by what it costs the landlord to own the property. If landlords cannot make a reasonable rate of return, they will not enter the market, and existing ones will exit. This will reduce the supply, and then the rents will rise.
    - Timon3 3y ago
      Logically this would increase ownership rates (since the landlords exiting the market will over-supply houses, lowering the price), which will remove pressure from the renting market, lowering the price.
      - WalterBright 3y ago
        Landlords leaving the market reduces supply, which will increase price.
        vkou 3y ago
        A landlord leaving the market doesn't take the house with him.
        Timon3 3y ago
        Landlords leaving the market sell to people who previously had to rent and can now own their own house. Since many landlords leave at once, people can buy houses cheaply. Where is the problem in my logic?
    - 3y ago

It's also the cities for which housing is most unaffordable.

by klyrs 3y ago

It's also the cities for which housing is most unaffordable.

Seattle has a levy on the ballot for a massive increase in property taxes in order to make housing more affordable. I am not making this up.

RugnirViking 3y ago
I don't think property tax factors much at all into land price. Else wouldn't land price be relatively consistent across locations with same tax systems
- WalterBright 3y ago
  It factors very much into the rent price. Lots of people think the property tax is paid by the landlord, and think increasing it sticks it to the landlord, but it is paid by the renters.
zdragnar 3y ago
See also California in 2009 had a proposal in their budget for a $1.2 million commission to promote the blueberry industry- paid for by a new tax specifically on blueberries.
klyrs 3y ago
A levy of 45 cents per $1000, which according to the seattle times: > The bulk of money raised from the new levy, $707 million, would go toward the construction of new subsidized rental homes and improvements to aging affordable apartments. Those programs are focused on housing for people making 60% of area median income or less, about $74,000 a year for a family of three. Nearly two-thirds of the funding would fund housing for those making even less, 30% of area median income or $37,000 for a family of three. The current levy (passed in 2016) is 25 cents per $1000. A tax of a few hundred dollars per year on a million dollar home isn't making an impact on housing affordability. Expanding the availability of affordable housing might. I'm skeptical that $707M is enough to make a dent.
- ianburrell 3y ago
  The total Seattle property tax is $8.29 per $1000. $.20 is a massive 2% increase.
  - WalterBright 3y ago
    $707 million is a massive amount of money.
    - klyrs 3y ago
      That's projected over 7 years, so $101 million per year. The city's annual budget is nearly 6 billion dollars. While $707 million sounds big, it's quite small relatively speaking. If you'd rather criminalize homelessness, build prisons and courts, employ more cops and prosecutors and prison guards, and defense lawyers for the inevitable lawsuits that arise from inhumane treatment, you might want to work up a budget for all that. And tell me where the money is going to come from, in a state with no income tax.
      - WalterBright 3y ago
        The state gets plenty of money in taxes. So does the city - nearly 6 billion dollars.
        klyrs 3y ago
        Define "plenty." So far your argument has taken the form "this is a big number." It isn't convincing.
    - ianburrell 3y ago
      The tax is $970 million over 7 years, with $707 million for buying and maintaining housing. Remember that each apartment costs something like $200K. That covers acquiring the estimated 3400 apartments plus maintenance for existing ones. The levy is an order of magnitude too small to fix problem. King County has 40,000 homeless. Also, I don't think the levy is for chronic homeless since it doesn't have programs to help them. The problem may be too big for local government and needs federal government to help out.
vkou 3y ago
When you buy a house, what you pay for it is determined by the mortgage you can afford. If interest rates go down, house prices go up. If property taxes go down, house prices go up. If property taxes go up, house prices go down. In the long term, it's a net wash. That and the people on the boundary of homelessness are renters, not homeowners. Rents are set by what the market will bear, not by what it costs the landlord to own the property.
- WalterBright 3y ago
  > Rents are set by what the market will bear, not by what it costs the landlord to own the property. If landlords cannot make a reasonable rate of return, they will not enter the market, and existing ones will exit. This will reduce the supply, and then the rents will rise.
  - Timon3 3y ago
    Logically this would increase ownership rates (since the landlords exiting the market will over-supply houses, lowering the price), which will remove pressure from the renting market, lowering the price.
    - WalterBright 3y ago
      Landlords leaving the market reduces supply, which will increase price.
      - vkou 3y ago
        A landlord leaving the market doesn't take the house with him.
      - Timon3 3y ago
        Landlords leaving the market sell to people who previously had to rent and can now own their own house. Since many landlords leave at once, people can buy houses cheaply. Where is the problem in my logic?
  - 3y ago