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It doesn't affect them directly, but the moderation tools a lot of subreddits need are built into third-party apps because Reddit refuses to build mod tools its

It doesn't affect them directly, but the moderation tools a lot of subreddits need are built into third-party apps because Reddit refuses to build mod tools itself, and when those stop working then the job of moderating large and active subreddits will become vastly more cumbersome and frustrating, and far less efficient. Maybe this issue only affects 0.1% of users, but those 0.1% of users do a lot for the site that depends on functionality that Reddit is unable or unwilling to provide. It also seems as though a lot of moderators of larger subreddits are starting to see how little their users understand and appreciate the amount of work that goes into moderating a subreddit. When those mod tools are gone and their jobs get harder, they're going to get shat on even more than they already do by those users, because of the issue that those users said was just "a bunch of dorks with no lives getting worked up over nothing". Curious to see how this all shakes out.

fny 3y ago
Are these moderation tools any better on other platforms?
- reddit_refugee3 3y ago
  What platforms? No, seriously, what platforms, I'm looking for a reddit alternative.
emodendroket 3y ago
Moderation is a maddening and thankless job but there’s always someone else who wants the privilege.
ForRealsies 3y ago
[dead]
throw16180339 3y ago
> It doesn't affect them directly, but the moderation tools a lot of subreddits need are built into third-party apps because Reddit refuses to build mod tools itself, and when those stop working then the job of moderating large and active subreddits will become vastly more cumbersome and frustrating, and far less efficient. I checked yesterday and some widely used mod bots are already down. https://www.reddit.com/user/Blank-Cheque https://www.reddit.com/user/Blank-Cheque took all their bots down 10 days ago until the third-party apps change is reverted. • AssistantBOT, AssistantBOT1 - This was broken by the Pushshift API cutoff. It's widely used for tracking sub usage statistics. The author is working on fixing it, but the last update was three weeks ago. • Flair_Helper (Blank-Cheque) - This makes removing posts easier, especially on mobile. I haven't used it in anger. • FloodgatesBot (Blank-Cheque) - This applies posting limits for users. There are a couple competitors, but I'm not sure how many are still running. • Quality_Vote (Blank-Cheque) - This is used to allow users to remove unpopular posts. It can save a lot of moderation work in the right kind of sub. • SafestBot (Blank-Cheque) - This is widely used by subs to ban spam and troll accounts. SaferBot, it's only alternative, was closed to additional subs some time ago.
Firmwarrior 3y ago
What tools do they actually need? It seems to me like Reddit mods mostly automatically ban people for participating in subs they don't like. Last time they went on strike en-masse they were upset that Reddit didn't give mods more ability to track and spy on users in an Orwellian fashion I made one comment on an anti-parent hate subreddit to try and explain why I thought they were wrong to automatically hate people for having kids, and then the subreddit for new parents automatically banned me. I tried to ask the mods on the subreddit for parents to unban me, and they muted me, and then Reddit gave me a temporary ban from the entire site for "harassment" of the mods So far as I'm concerned, I'm happy to see the end of the little pocket dictator mods and the admins/Spez. It'll be a lot nicer if I can keep completely separate throwaway identities for talking about diapers and talking about philosphy
- tyg13 3y ago
  It's sad to see comments like these. It just reminds me that people will so readily take the work of others for granted. The thing about the work mods do is that it's mostly invisible. If mods are doing their job, spam is getting deleted, reports are being serviced, and no one notices a thing. The subreddit seems to be working fine without them! It'd be easy to trick yourself into thinking they provide no utility. Even worse, since you don't notice the good work being done, all you do notice is the bad work (i.e. power tripping). Which, don't get me wrong, can be bad. But tbh the complaints I've heard about "Orwellian" mods are completely overblown. I've used reddit for over 10 years and subscribed to hundreds of subs. I've had my posts removed by power tripping mods maybe a handful of times. The number of times I've seen a subreddit go to shit due to lax or nonexistent moderation is much much higher.
  - Firmwarrior 3y ago
    I want to be charitable here, but honestly, I looked over the list of mod tools someone posted in a sibling comment.. and most of them are just tools to attempt to blacklist people for wrongthink I'm sure there are some small subs where the mods aren't huge jerks and benefit from usable tools to fight spam and deescalate flame wars, but I think we'll all be a hell of a lot better off with a bunch of unaffiliated or loosely-affiliated topical forums than we are with this current panopticon. The mods will be better off too: A guy moderating his own website will have better tools to combat spam and punish whatever he defines as trolls within his own kingdom.
brainfish 3y ago
This comment contains one of the most-repeated pieces of misinformation from the whole blackout: moderation tools. Reddit has stated repeatedly that moderation tools will be exempted from the API changes. "We will ensure existing utilities, especially moderation tools, have free access to our API."[1] [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/modnews/comments/141oqn8/api_updates_questions/ https://www.reddit.com/r/modnews/comments/141oqn8/api_update...
- cpncrunch 3y ago
  Unfortunately it seems that most of the reddit users/subs participating in this "strike" aren't interested in the facts. I see /r/science says it is private due to accessibility changes and it links to a Verge article, but the Verge article actually says that accessibility apps are exempted.
  - roastedoolong 3y ago
    the whole point is Reddit says that accessibility apps are exempt except in those cases where the app that offers accessibility does, you know, other things that people want their apps to do.
    - cpncrunch 3y ago
      Ok thanks for the explanation. From what I can see the issue is also whether the app is commercial or not, so it makes sense for reddit to restrict commercial apps that make money off their content. As people are saying, the best solution is for reddit to just make their own app/website more accessible.
  - irthomasthomas 3y ago
    Only after the outcry. And only non-commercial accessibility apps. Why are people not allowed to pay for accessibility tools?
    - covercash 3y ago
ryanSrich 3y ago
“…but the moderation tools a lot of subreddits need are built into third-party apps because Reddit refuses to build mod tools itself” Why should the users care? Less moderation and more open speech would drastically improve most subreddits. This seems like it’s more and more just tantrum throwing from mods who almost feel embarrassed they’ve devoted thousands of hours of free work to a corporation that literally doesn’t care about them at all.
- cyrialize 3y ago
  Moderators also ensure quality, by removing posts that don't follow rules. For example, /r/ExperiencedDevs is one of my favorite subreddits. They have rules around the types of questions you can ask. These rules are put into place to prevent the subreddit from becoming like /r/CSCareerQuestions, or to prevent an influx of memes. Without these tools or these moderators, I have a feeling some subreddits will become more generalist and possibly drop in quality. I go to /r/ExperiencedDevs (and other subreddits moderated in a similar fashion) for a very specific set of posts and expectations for questions. I don't really want to see memes, jokes, etc. in the subreddit, as I have other ones to go for that.
- molsongolden 3y ago
  > Less moderation and more open speech would drastically improve most subreddits. This just isn't true. Subreddits without moderators get buried in spam (both thinly veiled self-promotion and outright unrelated spam link dumping). (I've both moderated a small subreddit and tried to participate in subreddits with absent moderators.)
  - bnralt 3y ago
    Every time I've participated in a small sub where the mod went AWOL it's been just fine. Often much better than your average Reddit sub. You can even see this with smaller active subs that only have one moderator. The sub doesn't fill up with spam when the moderator is sleeping.
- idiotsecant 3y ago
  Less moderation doesn't mean we turn into some Ayn Rand-ian bastion of free speech and justice and the american way. It means you see more onlyfans spam and ads for VPNs.

fny 3y ago

Are these moderation tools any better on other platforms?

reddit_refugee3 3y ago
What platforms? No, seriously, what platforms, I'm looking for a reddit alternative.

emodendroket 3y ago

Moderation is a maddening and thankless job but there’s always someone else who wants the privilege.

ForRealsies 3y ago

[dead]

throw16180339 3y ago

> It doesn't affect them directly, but the moderation tools a lot of subreddits need are built into third-party apps because Reddit refuses to build mod tools itself, and when those stop working then the job of moderating large and active subreddits will become vastly more cumbersome and frustrating, and far less efficient. I checked yesterday and some widely used mod bots are already down. https://www.reddit.com/user/Blank-Cheque https://www.reddit.com/user/Blank-Cheque took all their bots down 10 days ago until the third-party apps change is reverted. • AssistantBOT, AssistantBOT1 - This was broken by the Pushshift API cutoff. It's widely used for tracking sub usage statistics. The author is working on fixing it, but the last update was three weeks ago. • Flair_Helper (Blank-Cheque) - This makes removing posts easier, especially on mobile. I haven't used it in anger. • FloodgatesBot (Blank-Cheque) - This applies posting limits for users. There are a couple competitors, but I'm not sure how many are still running. • Quality_Vote (Blank-Cheque) - This is used to allow users to remove unpopular posts. It can save a lot of moderation work in the right kind of sub. • SafestBot (Blank-Cheque) - This is widely used by subs to ban spam and troll accounts. SaferBot, it's only alternative, was closed to additional subs some time ago.

Firmwarrior 3y ago

What tools do they actually need? It seems to me like Reddit mods mostly automatically ban people for participating in subs they don't like. Last time they went on strike en-masse they were upset that Reddit didn't give mods more ability to track and spy on users in an Orwellian fashion I made one comment on an anti-parent hate subreddit to try and explain why I thought they were wrong to automatically hate people for having kids, and then the subreddit for new parents automatically banned me. I tried to ask the mods on the subreddit for parents to unban me, and they muted me, and then Reddit gave me a temporary ban from the entire site for "harassment" of the mods So far as I'm concerned, I'm happy to see the end of the little pocket dictator mods and the admins/Spez. It'll be a lot nicer if I can keep completely separate throwaway identities for talking about diapers and talking about philosphy

tyg13 3y ago
It's sad to see comments like these. It just reminds me that people will so readily take the work of others for granted. The thing about the work mods do is that it's mostly invisible. If mods are doing their job, spam is getting deleted, reports are being serviced, and no one notices a thing. The subreddit seems to be working fine without them! It'd be easy to trick yourself into thinking they provide no utility. Even worse, since you don't notice the good work being done, all you do notice is the bad work (i.e. power tripping). Which, don't get me wrong, can be bad. But tbh the complaints I've heard about "Orwellian" mods are completely overblown. I've used reddit for over 10 years and subscribed to hundreds of subs. I've had my posts removed by power tripping mods maybe a handful of times. The number of times I've seen a subreddit go to shit due to lax or nonexistent moderation is much much higher.
- Firmwarrior 3y ago
  I want to be charitable here, but honestly, I looked over the list of mod tools someone posted in a sibling comment.. and most of them are just tools to attempt to blacklist people for wrongthink I'm sure there are some small subs where the mods aren't huge jerks and benefit from usable tools to fight spam and deescalate flame wars, but I think we'll all be a hell of a lot better off with a bunch of unaffiliated or loosely-affiliated topical forums than we are with this current panopticon. The mods will be better off too: A guy moderating his own website will have better tools to combat spam and punish whatever he defines as trolls within his own kingdom.

brainfish 3y ago

This comment contains one of the most-repeated pieces of misinformation from the whole blackout: moderation tools. Reddit has stated repeatedly that moderation tools will be exempted from the API changes. "We will ensure existing utilities, especially moderation tools, have free access to our API."[1] [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/modnews/comments/141oqn8/api_updates_questions/ https://www.reddit.com/r/modnews/comments/141oqn8/api_update...

cpncrunch 3y ago
Unfortunately it seems that most of the reddit users/subs participating in this "strike" aren't interested in the facts. I see /r/science says it is private due to accessibility changes and it links to a Verge article, but the Verge article actually says that accessibility apps are exempted.
- roastedoolong 3y ago
  the whole point is Reddit says that accessibility apps are exempt except in those cases where the app that offers accessibility does, you know, other things that people want their apps to do.
  - cpncrunch 3y ago
    Ok thanks for the explanation. From what I can see the issue is also whether the app is commercial or not, so it makes sense for reddit to restrict commercial apps that make money off their content. As people are saying, the best solution is for reddit to just make their own app/website more accessible.
- irthomasthomas 3y ago
  Only after the outcry. And only non-commercial accessibility apps. Why are people not allowed to pay for accessibility tools?
  - covercash 3y ago

ryanSrich 3y ago

“…but the moderation tools a lot of subreddits need are built into third-party apps because Reddit refuses to build mod tools itself” Why should the users care? Less moderation and more open speech would drastically improve most subreddits. This seems like it’s more and more just tantrum throwing from mods who almost feel embarrassed they’ve devoted thousands of hours of free work to a corporation that literally doesn’t care about them at all.

cyrialize 3y ago
Moderators also ensure quality, by removing posts that don't follow rules. For example, /r/ExperiencedDevs is one of my favorite subreddits. They have rules around the types of questions you can ask. These rules are put into place to prevent the subreddit from becoming like /r/CSCareerQuestions, or to prevent an influx of memes. Without these tools or these moderators, I have a feeling some subreddits will become more generalist and possibly drop in quality. I go to /r/ExperiencedDevs (and other subreddits moderated in a similar fashion) for a very specific set of posts and expectations for questions. I don't really want to see memes, jokes, etc. in the subreddit, as I have other ones to go for that.
molsongolden 3y ago
> Less moderation and more open speech would drastically improve most subreddits. This just isn't true. Subreddits without moderators get buried in spam (both thinly veiled self-promotion and outright unrelated spam link dumping). (I've both moderated a small subreddit and tried to participate in subreddits with absent moderators.)
- bnralt 3y ago
  Every time I've participated in a small sub where the mod went AWOL it's been just fine. Often much better than your average Reddit sub. You can even see this with smaller active subs that only have one moderator. The sub doesn't fill up with spam when the moderator is sleeping.
idiotsecant 3y ago
Less moderation doesn't mean we turn into some Ayn Rand-ian bastion of free speech and justice and the american way. It means you see more onlyfans spam and ads for VPNs.