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>One time, when a customer asked him to help revive a beloved 1983 Honda Magma V45 that hadn’t been driven for two years, Crawford responded harshly: “Assuming

by 1970-01-01 3y ago

>One time, when a customer asked him to help revive a beloved 1983 Honda Magma V45 that hadn’t been driven for two years, Crawford responded harshly: “Assuming it’s got all the usual problems from sitting, you’re looking at a thousand dollars to get it back on the road. First, it is the Honda Magna. Second, this mechanic took him to the cleaners. The Magna isn't nearly as complex as a Goldwing. $1000 for cleaning the carbs and a new battery simply isn't honest. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7txrxM-NCc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7txrxM-NCc

mikestew 3y ago
You obviously RTFA, but it's intellectually dishonest to state that all it needs is a new battery and a little carb cleaner. Sure, you get it running, and take it down the road. Now the forks seals demonstrate that they're dried out and cracked, and leaking oil. I don't know how old the bike was at the time of writing, but let's assume 30 years old. Odds are really good that the brake lines have never been replaced. Hell, it's possible that it's riding on original tires. As one who has made the mistake of buying a bike that had been sitting a few years, if someone asked me to ball-park an estimate, $1000 might begin to cover it. One might very well get away with less, but I wouldn't count on it for my estimate. (And I've owned several Honda V4s over the years: those carbs do NOT come out easily, and they go back in even harder.)
- 1970-01-01 3y ago
  No, "all the problems from sitting" for 2 years should not include new brake lines, forks, etc. It does need just a carb clean and battery. Over-estimates are just as bad, if not worse, for a mechanic's reputation. He either did work that did not need doing, or simply said $1000 because he didn't want that shitty job.
  - bityard 3y ago
    I restore and wrench on vintage motorcycles. I also balked at first when I read this, but I think it comes down to bad storytelling rather than a shady mechanic. A motorcycle that has been sitting for 2 years does NOT need a complete overhaul, as you point out. But there is much-better-than-even chance that the 1983 motorcycle hadn't had ANY major maintenance done to it up to the point it stopped being ridden. It was probably parked in the first place because it stopped running due to lack of maintenance. And everything the mechanic listed that needed to be done likely hadn't been done in decades.
  - pengaru 3y ago
    $1k is a reasonable ballpark estimate for something like that sight-unseen from an experienced mechanic who understands how to manage expectations and prevent getting into situations where he's over-promised and under-estimated costs. When you err in the other direction it tends to produce worse outcomes for everyone involved, with the mechanic often ending up eating the difference. (I've worked as an auto mechanic in a former life)
- moudis 3y ago
  It discounts what you're liable to run into once you start disassembling things on old bikes, really. Sometimes you discover that a previous owner or mechanic thought red Loctite belonged on the screws holding the four carburetors together[^0], and your afternoon now involves a torch and chasing threads in old aluminum carburetor bodies. Sometimes you find that the bike was last touched in an era before anyone knew what a JIS screwdriver was, and every fastener is nearly stripped. Sometimes it's not even the bike, but that the last supply for a part is some shop in Maine that just happened to hold one for two decades. My last encounter with a VFR750 involved a heat gun and a pry-bar to remove the carburetors, they're no joke. [^0]: I love my GS1000G, but this wasn't my favorite part of getting it roadworthy.
  - taylodl 3y ago
    I'm a new motorcycle rider riding a Suzuki and I didn't know what a JIS screwdriver was! Thanks to you I do now!
    - names_are_hard 3y ago
      If all that comes off this entire HN post is that you get a good set of JIS screwdrivers, it's all worth it. It'll save you trouble down the line. Don't try to open the brake reservoir [0] screws with a Phillips. Ask me how I know. [0] You might have a plastic reservoir with a screw-off cap, in which case... you'll use the JIS for something else. P.S. Congrats on the new bike! Take an advanced riding course, read Keith Code, and buy good gear and you'll have a ton of fun with it.
- futureproofd 3y ago
  Here in Ontario at least, when you transfer ownership of a bike, you have to get it certified for safety. In my case, the bike was an '81 xs400 which required a fork seal replacement and new front tire (due to side wall damage). With parts and labour I paid approximately $500. Fair enough. Now, if he had recommended a full carb clean and battery replacement, of course that would bring the total to over $1000. Those recommendations are optional though, and your bike can live without them (if you enjoy using the kickstarter constantly ;)
stcroixx 3y ago
He probably also replaced all gaskets, seals, possibly even belts. Flush and replace all fluids. Just had this done to an even simpler bike for $1300.
NikolaNovak 3y ago
I am not even remotely an expert, but many motorcycles I've seen that spent couple of years in the storage, let alone ones as old as that, need a lot of gaskets, seals, tubing and what-nots worked on or replaced - or at least examined/tested/cleaned. Plus you want to give a conservative estimate. Also remember - if I am doing repairs for fun, I only count the parts cost. But if I go to professional mechanic, it's $100/hr in labour. So $1000 might be $300 of parts and a day of labour to restore to safe operation an old motorcycle. That is quite in line with the amount of work I've seen friends do to bring old bikes back on road (well... my friends would spend weeks and dozens of hours, but we're assuming mechanics are more efficient:)
- dclowd9901 3y ago
  Bike mechanics are in high demand and not super common. The quote he gave seemed super on point to me. It’s what I’d charge if someone asked me to do the same thing. I could probably get it running for less but it would probably continue to break down over time
  - BluePen7 3y ago
    Just due to the lower volume the price jumps up unexpectedly. For the labour of an oil change, I was quoted $25 for my car, and $65 for my motorcycle. To change the oil and filter on my car, you have to reach in a super terrible spot prone to burning and cutting people who attempt it. On my motorcycle? It's an enduro, I have a foot of clearance and can see the single bolt required from across the driveway, it also requires exactly 2 quarts. I got quite quick at changing my bike oil, and continued to pay someone else to burn themselves on my car.
    - NikolaNovak 3y ago
      It's been... A very long time since I've been quoted that little for an oil change, by dealership or third party chain or an independent. And I do not drive an Audi either :-) Few thoughts / possibilities - was work done as part of larger work, as incremental? - does 25$ charge include parts? - was this a quick turnaround lube shop or an actual qualified mechanic - do you have a relationship - what's their business model? A lot of them have loss leaders because when they change your oil for 25 they'll find out you also need a brake change or filter change or or or
Swizec 3y ago
My local motorcycle shop charges about $200 per mechanic hour. I would love a $1000 bill! On the bright side, I’m learning more and more about sidewalk mechanic-ing. It’s a lot of fun. Very flow state in that way that programming just hasn’t been able to scratch in years. You go to replace some mufflers and what feels like 5 minutes was actually 2 hours.
- inconceivable 3y ago
  the trick to wrenching on your own stuff (including home maintenance) is to take your time and never rush anything. read the directions and watch the youtube video 10x before you start. just assume it's going to take hours and hours. go to the auto parts store or amazon as many times as is needed to get it done right. get the right tools, even the cheap version will save you tons of aggravation and frustration. a lot of younger folks are impatient (past me included) and get suboptimal results for a lot of time spent, which puts them off of doing work themselves. the irony is of course that younger folks have all the time and none of the money. they are also the ones complaining the most about how expensive home/auto/whatever services are. this will also teach you the limits of what you actually can and can't do, so that when you do spend money on a pro it's money well spent. they also prefer to do the more complex jobs (less customer overhead, setup and cleanup time eating into margins) so it's win-win. as someone above said, they're far more efficient at the actual work but you can't make a lift go faster or shortcut any consumables used.
  - Fradow 3y ago
    Also have a plan B if things go south. And yes, that means not working on your daily (or someone else) if you don't have a backup transportation solution. Because just like we have bugs in production, things break when you wrench on them, even if you do everything by the book (note: first-hand experience there). But those are just setbacks, and no big deal if you are prepared for them.
    - ambicapter 3y ago
      So basically if you want to work on your vehicle, you need a second vehicle. That was basically the reason I could never get behind doing work on my own car.
salonium_ 3y ago
The article is on a collaborative online platform, so you can add comments or suggestions for corrections on the website :) https://books.worksinprogress.co/book/maintenance-of-everything/vehicles/what-motorcycles-teach-about-maintenance/4?mode=suggest https://books.worksinprogress.co/book/maintenance-of-everyth...
dwater 3y ago
"The carbs will need to be gone through, it’ll need new fork seals, new battery, new tires, probably new hydraulic lines, and who knows what else." The parts for that these days would probably be over $500, and around here shop labor is $100/hr, so it would probably be more than $1000 today.

mikestew 3y ago

You obviously RTFA, but it's intellectually dishonest to state that all it needs is a new battery and a little carb cleaner. Sure, you get it running, and take it down the road. Now the forks seals demonstrate that they're dried out and cracked, and leaking oil. I don't know how old the bike was at the time of writing, but let's assume 30 years old. Odds are really good that the brake lines have never been replaced. Hell, it's possible that it's riding on original tires. As one who has made the mistake of buying a bike that had been sitting a few years, if someone asked me to ball-park an estimate, $1000 might begin to cover it. One might very well get away with less, but I wouldn't count on it for my estimate. (And I've owned several Honda V4s over the years: those carbs do NOT come out easily, and they go back in even harder.)

1970-01-01 3y ago
No, "all the problems from sitting" for 2 years should not include new brake lines, forks, etc. It does need just a carb clean and battery. Over-estimates are just as bad, if not worse, for a mechanic's reputation. He either did work that did not need doing, or simply said $1000 because he didn't want that shitty job.
- bityard 3y ago
  I restore and wrench on vintage motorcycles. I also balked at first when I read this, but I think it comes down to bad storytelling rather than a shady mechanic. A motorcycle that has been sitting for 2 years does NOT need a complete overhaul, as you point out. But there is much-better-than-even chance that the 1983 motorcycle hadn't had ANY major maintenance done to it up to the point it stopped being ridden. It was probably parked in the first place because it stopped running due to lack of maintenance. And everything the mechanic listed that needed to be done likely hadn't been done in decades.
- pengaru 3y ago
  $1k is a reasonable ballpark estimate for something like that sight-unseen from an experienced mechanic who understands how to manage expectations and prevent getting into situations where he's over-promised and under-estimated costs. When you err in the other direction it tends to produce worse outcomes for everyone involved, with the mechanic often ending up eating the difference. (I've worked as an auto mechanic in a former life)
moudis 3y ago
It discounts what you're liable to run into once you start disassembling things on old bikes, really. Sometimes you discover that a previous owner or mechanic thought red Loctite belonged on the screws holding the four carburetors together[^0], and your afternoon now involves a torch and chasing threads in old aluminum carburetor bodies. Sometimes you find that the bike was last touched in an era before anyone knew what a JIS screwdriver was, and every fastener is nearly stripped. Sometimes it's not even the bike, but that the last supply for a part is some shop in Maine that just happened to hold one for two decades. My last encounter with a VFR750 involved a heat gun and a pry-bar to remove the carburetors, they're no joke. [^0]: I love my GS1000G, but this wasn't my favorite part of getting it roadworthy.
- taylodl 3y ago
  I'm a new motorcycle rider riding a Suzuki and I didn't know what a JIS screwdriver was! Thanks to you I do now!
  - names_are_hard 3y ago
    If all that comes off this entire HN post is that you get a good set of JIS screwdrivers, it's all worth it. It'll save you trouble down the line. Don't try to open the brake reservoir [0] screws with a Phillips. Ask me how I know. [0] You might have a plastic reservoir with a screw-off cap, in which case... you'll use the JIS for something else. P.S. Congrats on the new bike! Take an advanced riding course, read Keith Code, and buy good gear and you'll have a ton of fun with it.
futureproofd 3y ago
Here in Ontario at least, when you transfer ownership of a bike, you have to get it certified for safety. In my case, the bike was an '81 xs400 which required a fork seal replacement and new front tire (due to side wall damage). With parts and labour I paid approximately $500. Fair enough. Now, if he had recommended a full carb clean and battery replacement, of course that would bring the total to over $1000. Those recommendations are optional though, and your bike can live without them (if you enjoy using the kickstarter constantly ;)

stcroixx 3y ago

He probably also replaced all gaskets, seals, possibly even belts. Flush and replace all fluids. Just had this done to an even simpler bike for $1300.

NikolaNovak 3y ago

I am not even remotely an expert, but many motorcycles I've seen that spent couple of years in the storage, let alone ones as old as that, need a lot of gaskets, seals, tubing and what-nots worked on or replaced - or at least examined/tested/cleaned. Plus you want to give a conservative estimate. Also remember - if I am doing repairs for fun, I only count the parts cost. But if I go to professional mechanic, it's $100/hr in labour. So $1000 might be $300 of parts and a day of labour to restore to safe operation an old motorcycle. That is quite in line with the amount of work I've seen friends do to bring old bikes back on road (well... my friends would spend weeks and dozens of hours, but we're assuming mechanics are more efficient:)

dclowd9901 3y ago
Bike mechanics are in high demand and not super common. The quote he gave seemed super on point to me. It’s what I’d charge if someone asked me to do the same thing. I could probably get it running for less but it would probably continue to break down over time
- BluePen7 3y ago
  Just due to the lower volume the price jumps up unexpectedly. For the labour of an oil change, I was quoted $25 for my car, and $65 for my motorcycle. To change the oil and filter on my car, you have to reach in a super terrible spot prone to burning and cutting people who attempt it. On my motorcycle? It's an enduro, I have a foot of clearance and can see the single bolt required from across the driveway, it also requires exactly 2 quarts. I got quite quick at changing my bike oil, and continued to pay someone else to burn themselves on my car.
  - NikolaNovak 3y ago
    It's been... A very long time since I've been quoted that little for an oil change, by dealership or third party chain or an independent. And I do not drive an Audi either :-) Few thoughts / possibilities - was work done as part of larger work, as incremental? - does 25$ charge include parts? - was this a quick turnaround lube shop or an actual qualified mechanic - do you have a relationship - what's their business model? A lot of them have loss leaders because when they change your oil for 25 they'll find out you also need a brake change or filter change or or or

Swizec 3y ago

My local motorcycle shop charges about $200 per mechanic hour. I would love a $1000 bill! On the bright side, I’m learning more and more about sidewalk mechanic-ing. It’s a lot of fun. Very flow state in that way that programming just hasn’t been able to scratch in years. You go to replace some mufflers and what feels like 5 minutes was actually 2 hours.

inconceivable 3y ago
the trick to wrenching on your own stuff (including home maintenance) is to take your time and never rush anything. read the directions and watch the youtube video 10x before you start. just assume it's going to take hours and hours. go to the auto parts store or amazon as many times as is needed to get it done right. get the right tools, even the cheap version will save you tons of aggravation and frustration. a lot of younger folks are impatient (past me included) and get suboptimal results for a lot of time spent, which puts them off of doing work themselves. the irony is of course that younger folks have all the time and none of the money. they are also the ones complaining the most about how expensive home/auto/whatever services are. this will also teach you the limits of what you actually can and can't do, so that when you do spend money on a pro it's money well spent. they also prefer to do the more complex jobs (less customer overhead, setup and cleanup time eating into margins) so it's win-win. as someone above said, they're far more efficient at the actual work but you can't make a lift go faster or shortcut any consumables used.
- Fradow 3y ago
  Also have a plan B if things go south. And yes, that means not working on your daily (or someone else) if you don't have a backup transportation solution. Because just like we have bugs in production, things break when you wrench on them, even if you do everything by the book (note: first-hand experience there). But those are just setbacks, and no big deal if you are prepared for them.
  - ambicapter 3y ago
    So basically if you want to work on your vehicle, you need a second vehicle. That was basically the reason I could never get behind doing work on my own car.

salonium_ 3y ago

The article is on a collaborative online platform, so you can add comments or suggestions for corrections on the website :) https://books.worksinprogress.co/book/maintenance-of-everything/vehicles/what-motorcycles-teach-about-maintenance/4?mode=suggest https://books.worksinprogress.co/book/maintenance-of-everyth...

dwater 3y ago

"The carbs will need to be gone through, it’ll need new fork seals, new battery, new tires, probably new hydraulic lines, and who knows what else." The parts for that these days would probably be over $500, and around here shop labor is $100/hr, so it would probably be more than $1000 today.