5 ms·

My favorite was browsing a 1902 Ladies’ Home Journal and finding a lament about how commercial Christmas had become, and essentially, how much better things wer

My favorite was browsing a 1902 Ladies’ Home Journal and finding a lament about how commercial Christmas had become, and essentially, how much better things were back in the good old days. It’s amazing how evergreen that general sentiment seems to be.

raxxorraxor 3y ago
Likewise it is very true for almost everyone. Younger people and kids first don't experience anything like the usual shopping rush associated with Christmas so "back in the good old days" it was indeed less commercialized.
- civilized 3y ago
  The eternal dilemma: given a change in society or social perceptions over time, is it a time effect, an age effect, or a birth cohort effect?
JJMcJ 3y ago
It has been recorded from the earliest days of the Christian holiday. Maybe even before that with its predecessors.
- floren 3y ago
  Seneca in a letter to Lucilius, circa 62 AD: > It is the month of December, and yet the city is at this very moment in a sweat. Licence is given to the general merrymaking. Everything resounds with mighty preparations, – as if the Saturnalia differed at all from the usual business day! So true it is that the difference is nil, that I regard as correct the remark of the man who said: "Once December was a month; now it is a year." (https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Moral_letters_to_Lucilius/Letter_18 https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Moral_letters_to_Lucilius/Let...)
namaria 3y ago
People have been writing about "kids these days" ever since the alphabet got invented...
- mjklin 3y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O_tempora,_o_mores https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O_tempora,_o_mores!
  - namaria 3y ago
    You know this guy ended up decapitated, and his head put up in the Senate rostra... Talk about a big mouth
    - jerf 3y ago
      A lot of people like to say "people have always been saying that." Fewer people notice that in light of the fact that history has not been on a monotonic universal upwards trend everywhere that many of the people complaining about the younger generation in fact had a point and that generation in particular they were complaining about did in fact get into a lot of trouble. The problem with the statement isn't that the people saying it are always wrong; the problem is that it is always being said to some extent and therefore carries no particular information content in its mere statement. Rates of statement might be relevant but we have nowhere near the data we'd need historically to determine that.
      - namaria 3y ago
        So it might or it might not be relevant? Noted.
        jerf 3y ago
        That is a change from "it's nothing, people are always saying that, so I can dismiss it".
iamgoat 3y ago
https://archive.org/details/sim_ladies-home-journal_1902-12_20_1/page/6/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/sim_ladies-home-journal_1902-12_... The transition to longer daylight during winter solstice in the less-connected, less-commercialized times made for more grounded local, personal engagements. Writing that letter, making that treat, giving that gift, sharing that moment during the colder, darker times. Many of these individual productions are no longer created. Lost and replaced by layers of conveniences and alternative social interactions developed with each generation. Piled on through centuries of commerce. No wonder its evergreen. For that time of year, as an aging introvert, the darkest days remind me to keep working on my one-on-one engagements.
drewcoo 3y ago
Unlike the other replies claiming it's always been that way, I'll agree with the author of that article. The commercialization of Christmas as we know it really started in the mid-19th century. https://www.bbc.co.uk/victorianchristmas/history.shtml https://www.bbc.co.uk/victorianchristmas/history.shtml

raxxorraxor 3y ago

Likewise it is very true for almost everyone. Younger people and kids first don't experience anything like the usual shopping rush associated with Christmas so "back in the good old days" it was indeed less commercialized.

civilized 3y ago
The eternal dilemma: given a change in society or social perceptions over time, is it a time effect, an age effect, or a birth cohort effect?

JJMcJ 3y ago

It has been recorded from the earliest days of the Christian holiday. Maybe even before that with its predecessors.

floren 3y ago
Seneca in a letter to Lucilius, circa 62 AD: > It is the month of December, and yet the city is at this very moment in a sweat. Licence is given to the general merrymaking. Everything resounds with mighty preparations, – as if the Saturnalia differed at all from the usual business day! So true it is that the difference is nil, that I regard as correct the remark of the man who said: "Once December was a month; now it is a year." (https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Moral_letters_to_Lucilius/Letter_18 https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Moral_letters_to_Lucilius/Let...)

namaria 3y ago

People have been writing about "kids these days" ever since the alphabet got invented...

mjklin 3y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O_tempora,_o_mores https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O_tempora,_o_mores!
- namaria 3y ago
  You know this guy ended up decapitated, and his head put up in the Senate rostra... Talk about a big mouth
  - jerf 3y ago
    A lot of people like to say "people have always been saying that." Fewer people notice that in light of the fact that history has not been on a monotonic universal upwards trend everywhere that many of the people complaining about the younger generation in fact had a point and that generation in particular they were complaining about did in fact get into a lot of trouble. The problem with the statement isn't that the people saying it are always wrong; the problem is that it is always being said to some extent and therefore carries no particular information content in its mere statement. Rates of statement might be relevant but we have nowhere near the data we'd need historically to determine that.
    - namaria 3y ago
      So it might or it might not be relevant? Noted.
      - jerf 3y ago
        That is a change from "it's nothing, people are always saying that, so I can dismiss it".

iamgoat 3y ago

https://archive.org/details/sim_ladies-home-journal_1902-12_20_1/page/6/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/sim_ladies-home-journal_1902-12_... The transition to longer daylight during winter solstice in the less-connected, less-commercialized times made for more grounded local, personal engagements. Writing that letter, making that treat, giving that gift, sharing that moment during the colder, darker times. Many of these individual productions are no longer created. Lost and replaced by layers of conveniences and alternative social interactions developed with each generation. Piled on through centuries of commerce. No wonder its evergreen. For that time of year, as an aging introvert, the darkest days remind me to keep working on my one-on-one engagements.

drewcoo 3y ago

Unlike the other replies claiming it's always been that way, I'll agree with the author of that article. The commercialization of Christmas as we know it really started in the mid-19th century. https://www.bbc.co.uk/victorianchristmas/history.shtml https://www.bbc.co.uk/victorianchristmas/history.shtml