5 ms·

On the scale of drug hardness, alcohol is near the top. I don't see why any other drug should have stricter laws. Alcohol is addictive, physical dependence fo

On the scale of drug hardness, alcohol is near the top. I don't see why any other drug should have stricter laws. Alcohol is addictive, physical dependence forming and can be overdosed with no medical use. Are these not attributes of Schedule 1 drugs?

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
meepmorp 3y ago
At very least, it makes sense to regulate it more in line with other drugs that have significant effects on GABAA receptors, like barbiturates and benzodiazepines. Not only does alcohol cause physical dependence, like other GABAA targeting drugs, chronic use lowers the seizure threshold making them physically dangerous to discontinue without tapering or medication.
californical 3y ago
It’s also widely understood how to dose and consume it — the commonality of it makes it less dangerous on a micro level. And also much harder to convince people to ban it when the majority of people consume it. Alcohol has existed and been consumed since before humans existed. It’s also trivially easy to produce alcohol yourself, naturally manifesting out of a sugary liquid, meaning that prohibition is ~impossible. If you mean just from an effects standpoint than yeah alcohol is absolutely top tier dangerous. But unfortunately/luckily, society operates on more than just statistics. And trying to take the human emotion element out of decisions is hopeless.
- pixelpoet 3y ago
  > Alcohol has existed and been consumed since before humans existed. Ditto cannabis and opium poppies for example, arguably a million times more naturally manifesting than a distillation process.
  - ChuckNorris89 3y ago
    >Ditto cannabis and opium poppies for example, arguably a million times more naturally manifesting than a distillation process. Yes, but historically, alcoholic societies thrived and developed much better than stoner societies.
    - JPws_Prntr_Fngr 3y ago
      Source? Alcoholism took down at least one Mongol dynasty, and psychadelia was probably central to some comparably "enlightened" Greek societies.
      - bluefirebrand 3y ago
        No source needed. There's a liquor store in every strip mall, every restaurant servers liquor, every concert or sporting event serves liquor. Meanwhile other drugs are heavily regulated if not outright illegal in most places still The societies that drank liquor clearly dominated for this to be the case.
        LoganDark 3y ago
        > The societies that drank liquor clearly dominated for this to be the case. Wasn't LSD banned in the US because it got super popular and became a great "poster child" for the war on drugs? Not because it was not popular enough. AFAIK caffeine, nicotine and alcohol are legal at this point mainly because they've been normalized. As in, people generally perceive them to have minimal risk, so there's not a lot of opposition. Yes the risk is not actually minimal for any of those three. Even caffeine can be dependence-forming. But most people either don't know this or don't care.
        dragonwriter 3y ago
        It became super popular in a subculture that wasn't popular enough.
        3y ago
- JPws_Prntr_Fngr 3y ago
  How would you realize this about alcohol, but not about psilocybin? Or lysergic acid? Etc etc. So the answer is not the age of the substances, nor the natural occurrence in nature. It's something more irrational. I propose that it's regulatory capture by massive industrial interests. See also: scaremongering against weed vapes by the tobacco industry, or the classic Reefer Madness.
Euphorbium 3y ago
Ethanol is a cure to methanol poisoning.
nanidin 3y ago
Schedule 1 also requires that there is no medical use for the drug, which IIRC ethanol is an effective treatment for someone who has consumed methanol.
- freedomben 3y ago
  > Schedule 1 also requires that there is no medical use for the drug Technically yes, but that didn't stop marijuana from being schedule 1. Actually, isn't it still schedule 1 in the US?
  - nanidin 3y ago
    "accepted medical use" is the actual phrasing I believe. But yes, it's definitely not based on actual medicine, moreso on the whims of the DEA and lawmakers.
- dur-randir 3y ago
  And Adderall aka amphetamine is prescribed for ADHD.
  - nanidin 3y ago
    Google says amphetamines are schedule II, so that's in line with your statement.
  - LoganDark 3y ago
    As well as pure dextroamphetamine, which I take. Hell, even meth can be prescribed by a doctor; I believe the brand for it's called Desoxyn and it's usually prescribed for severe overeating disorders, not usually ADHD.
- tastyfreeze 3y ago
  "Schedule I drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with no currently accepted medical use and a high potential for abuse. Some examples of Schedule I drugs are: heroin, lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD), marijuana (cannabis), 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (ecstasy), methaqualone, and peyote." https://www.dea.gov/drug-information/drug-scheduling https://www.dea.gov/drug-information/drug-scheduling The key phrase is "currently accepted medical use". That is an arbitrary definition that is set by the regulator. A drug must have a medical use that is accepted by the DEA who defers to the FDA for such definitions.
gwbas1c 3y ago
> On the scale of drug hardness, alcohol is near the top. That's a very subjective statement. Many animals seek out alcohol in the wild. For example, bears will seek out fermenting berries and get "drunk." > drug hardness There really is no objective distinction between "hard" and "soft" drugs. For example, spend a minute skimming https://www.gatewayfoundation.org/addiction-blog/hard-vs-soft-drugs/#:~:text=What%20Is%20Considered%20Hard%20Drugs,the%20shortest%20amount%20of%20time https://www.gatewayfoundation.org/addiction-blog/hard-vs-sof.... "These arbitrary categories have no clear criteria or definition, and they also have no scientific basis"
- ClumsyPilot 3y ago
  > Many animals seek out alcohol in the wild. For example, bears will seek out fermenting berries and get "drunk." I am not clear how this proves or disproves anything. Deer seek out mushrooms that are poisonous to us. We seek out coffee beans, whoch are poison to insects but caffeine is fine for us in small doses. Etc. Also caffeine is a top tier drug.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

meepmorp 3y ago

At very least, it makes sense to regulate it more in line with other drugs that have significant effects on GABAA receptors, like barbiturates and benzodiazepines. Not only does alcohol cause physical dependence, like other GABAA targeting drugs, chronic use lowers the seizure threshold making them physically dangerous to discontinue without tapering or medication.

californical 3y ago

It’s also widely understood how to dose and consume it — the commonality of it makes it less dangerous on a micro level. And also much harder to convince people to ban it when the majority of people consume it. Alcohol has existed and been consumed since before humans existed. It’s also trivially easy to produce alcohol yourself, naturally manifesting out of a sugary liquid, meaning that prohibition is ~impossible. If you mean just from an effects standpoint than yeah alcohol is absolutely top tier dangerous. But unfortunately/luckily, society operates on more than just statistics. And trying to take the human emotion element out of decisions is hopeless.

pixelpoet 3y ago
> Alcohol has existed and been consumed since before humans existed. Ditto cannabis and opium poppies for example, arguably a million times more naturally manifesting than a distillation process.
- ChuckNorris89 3y ago
  >Ditto cannabis and opium poppies for example, arguably a million times more naturally manifesting than a distillation process. Yes, but historically, alcoholic societies thrived and developed much better than stoner societies.
  - JPws_Prntr_Fngr 3y ago
    Source? Alcoholism took down at least one Mongol dynasty, and psychadelia was probably central to some comparably "enlightened" Greek societies.
    - bluefirebrand 3y ago
      No source needed. There's a liquor store in every strip mall, every restaurant servers liquor, every concert or sporting event serves liquor. Meanwhile other drugs are heavily regulated if not outright illegal in most places still The societies that drank liquor clearly dominated for this to be the case.
      - LoganDark 3y ago
        > The societies that drank liquor clearly dominated for this to be the case. Wasn't LSD banned in the US because it got super popular and became a great "poster child" for the war on drugs? Not because it was not popular enough. AFAIK caffeine, nicotine and alcohol are legal at this point mainly because they've been normalized. As in, people generally perceive them to have minimal risk, so there's not a lot of opposition. Yes the risk is not actually minimal for any of those three. Even caffeine can be dependence-forming. But most people either don't know this or don't care.
        dragonwriter 3y ago
        It became super popular in a subculture that wasn't popular enough.
      - 3y ago
JPws_Prntr_Fngr 3y ago
How would you realize this about alcohol, but not about psilocybin? Or lysergic acid? Etc etc. So the answer is not the age of the substances, nor the natural occurrence in nature. It's something more irrational. I propose that it's regulatory capture by massive industrial interests. See also: scaremongering against weed vapes by the tobacco industry, or the classic Reefer Madness.

Euphorbium 3y ago

Ethanol is a cure to methanol poisoning.

nanidin 3y ago

Schedule 1 also requires that there is no medical use for the drug, which IIRC ethanol is an effective treatment for someone who has consumed methanol.

freedomben 3y ago
> Schedule 1 also requires that there is no medical use for the drug Technically yes, but that didn't stop marijuana from being schedule 1. Actually, isn't it still schedule 1 in the US?
- nanidin 3y ago
  "accepted medical use" is the actual phrasing I believe. But yes, it's definitely not based on actual medicine, moreso on the whims of the DEA and lawmakers.
dur-randir 3y ago
And Adderall aka amphetamine is prescribed for ADHD.
- nanidin 3y ago
  Google says amphetamines are schedule II, so that's in line with your statement.
- LoganDark 3y ago
  As well as pure dextroamphetamine, which I take. Hell, even meth can be prescribed by a doctor; I believe the brand for it's called Desoxyn and it's usually prescribed for severe overeating disorders, not usually ADHD.
tastyfreeze 3y ago
"Schedule I drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with no currently accepted medical use and a high potential for abuse. Some examples of Schedule I drugs are: heroin, lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD), marijuana (cannabis), 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (ecstasy), methaqualone, and peyote." https://www.dea.gov/drug-information/drug-scheduling https://www.dea.gov/drug-information/drug-scheduling The key phrase is "currently accepted medical use". That is an arbitrary definition that is set by the regulator. A drug must have a medical use that is accepted by the DEA who defers to the FDA for such definitions.

gwbas1c 3y ago

> On the scale of drug hardness, alcohol is near the top. That's a very subjective statement. Many animals seek out alcohol in the wild. For example, bears will seek out fermenting berries and get "drunk." > drug hardness There really is no objective distinction between "hard" and "soft" drugs. For example, spend a minute skimming https://www.gatewayfoundation.org/addiction-blog/hard-vs-soft-drugs/#:~:text=What%20Is%20Considered%20Hard%20Drugs,the%20shortest%20amount%20of%20time https://www.gatewayfoundation.org/addiction-blog/hard-vs-sof.... "These arbitrary categories have no clear criteria or definition, and they also have no scientific basis"

ClumsyPilot 3y ago
> Many animals seek out alcohol in the wild. For example, bears will seek out fermenting berries and get "drunk." I am not clear how this proves or disproves anything. Deer seek out mushrooms that are poisonous to us. We seek out coffee beans, whoch are poison to insects but caffeine is fine for us in small doses. Etc. Also caffeine is a top tier drug.