7 ms·

The Shy Connector

178 points by cleaver 15y ago

zerostar07 15y ago
Dude, it's OK that you 're an extrovert, take it easy.
- philco 15y ago
  The point is a good one though - has nothing to do with extroversion VS. introversion. Being a connector is about adding value selflessly. Thinking of others first, and yourself second. I would argue that at the root of all true connectors is a deep sense of altruism.
  - pasbesoin 15y ago
    (Haven't looked at the OP, yet.) I think something that is too often missed is that for some if not all the motivation is not simply a "selfless" altruism. True, helping others brings a deep satisfaction. But it also is an individual step in creating the kind of world we want to inhabit. One of cooperation, to mutual benefit and enjoyment. I think some people get hung up on the term "selfless". For me, it's not selfless -- it's the essence of self. A self that seeks to be connected with and of use to other people. (And perhaps hopes a bit, but doesn't specifically expect on a case by case basis, for the same in return.) P,S. Looked at the link, but it's Flash. So, not viewing it, for now.
    - philco 15y ago
      Excellent point - I completely agree. (Interesting choice of HN name by the way, "no needs".) I often tell people the following: The world only works if you think of others first, and yourself second. If everyone thought of your needs, they'd be met by now. If you only think about your needs, you have long road ahead of you.
      - fooandbarify 15y ago
        I apologize in advance for being a pedant but since you do say you find it interesting, "pas besoin" is used in the context of [subject] don't/doesn't need [noun] rather than in the sense of having "no needs" which would be written "pas de besoin".
    - mkopinsky 15y ago
      This comment is gold. As one of my rabbis put it, the key to life is not nullification of Self, but rather the expansion of Self to include those around you. EDIT: adding missing "not".
- ugh 15y ago
  Ahem, does that presentation say anything else? It’s explicitly about people who are introverts. It doesn’t mention or target extroverts at all. It doesn’t say anything whatsoever negative about extroverts or imply that there is anything wrong with them.
  - zerostar07 15y ago
    You don't get my point. The author claims that he does all that because he is an introvert which is not the case at all. Introverts do not try so hard to make themselves generally available. It's a choice. There's a certain ring to being an introvert lately I think? Maybe it's the new chic? A revival of teenage angst? In any case call a spade a spade.
    - kevingadd 15y ago
      Yeah, because being overwhelmed by prolonged social interaction and preferring to spend time alone makes you an extrovert. What???
      - zerostar07 15y ago
        The whole presentation is about how to avoid being all that.
        ugh 15y ago
        It’s about getting the best of both worlds. It’s about getting some of the benefits of being an extrovert without having to act (because that’s how it feels to introverts) like one.
    - logic 15y ago
      > [...] The author claims that he [...] She.
philco 15y ago
This is incredible. Says more about what people should do to grow their network than countless books have by so called "experts".
babbling 15y ago
What he doesn't really explain is why, as an introvert who prefers being his own company, he makes such an effort?
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
icebraining 15y ago
Slightly offtopic: I think a lot of introverts are considered shy unfairly. I'm an introvert myself, and I've been always described as "shy", but I don't think I am. I have never had any problems with meeting new people, even if they supposedly "outrank" me. (In fact, as an anecdote, on my first job interview the interviewer remarked she was surprised at how relaxed I was). I tend to be quiet for two reasons. First, do you know that common saying that says that a real friend is someone who can sit with you in silence? Yeah, I can sit with anyone in silence. Never feels awkward to me. Second, I hate, truly hate small talk. When I watched George Carlin's People are Boring[1] I found myself violently agreeing. And since I instinctively follow the golden rule in those cases, and I know my interests are unusual, I tend to avoid boring others by staying quiet. What I really need is a way to distinguish true interest from politeness. But unfortunately that seems to be far too common a defect. Any other introverts who don't consider themselves shy? [1]: http://youtu.be/eyWsFfd9pqE http://youtu.be/eyWsFfd9pqE
- ikirill 15y ago
  I agree. In general, I find the task of "introduce yourself to a specific person" or "make a specific case for something" much much easier than "talk to people about nothing in particular", if only because there is always a specific goal that I keep in mind while talking. So long as I deliver a presentation well and impart all the main ideas, it's going well. I find that small talk is impossible to handle like that because it's too random and there is no specific easy-to-see criterion of success or failure. Others simply paying attention could indeed mean politeness rather than interest. Staying quiet, I feel, has the unfortunate side effect of making me seem asocial, and I am not quite sure that it is a viable thing to do in a social situation.
- wallflower 15y ago
  > Any other introverts who don't consider themselves shy? In this society, I think there is pressure for someone who has a shy friend to label them not shy. Maybe because it makes them feel better. To put inordinate emphasis on examples of their friend not being shy to support their argument that the friend is not shy. I think, in general, people will bolster whatever argument they want to bolster. To some friends, I may come across as not shy - but the reality is: Even though I do like being around people, as much I may regret/feel the pangs of being lonely sometimes, I prefer solitude and hiding in my cave regularly. Maybe that is being shy. As an example, the other day, I was referencing being shy and my friend's wife called me out on it. She claimed that I knew a lot of people (true) in a large number of areas (true). If I am not shy, then how did I meet these people? My answer was that I when I get focused on a project (be it, salsa dancing, learning how to draw/paint, helping a non-profit) - I get uber focused. In this situations, I draw people in because I am supremely interested in soaking up as much as I can about the project du jour. I recognize that I don't know much - I excel in situations where I don't know much but want to know more - and I find, especially, in non-technology situations - that you can't just Google it - you have to talk to actual people. However, most of these people I know - it is a very loose connection - we're not friends per se just friendly. I just know lots of people because I have lots of interests. I can't talk sports (didn't grow up watching football on TV like many of my peers). I can't talk politics. But I am an extremely good listener - I can draw people out on a one-to-one basis and get them to really talk about what is important to them. Not always, of course (I usually have my force fields up). However, being able to connect with someone on a non-superficial basis is a joy in my life - and it usually happens within minutes - when it happens. It is much harder to engage a group. In fact, at parties, I will be intensely soaking up the conversation (saying nothing but totally being a sponge) and my friends (extroverts) will ask me later - very annoying btw - whether I am having a good time. Usually, I am because I love hearing about other people's lives. In a group situation, I am definitely more passive - and could be seen as a non-participant. And in a way, I am. But I am listening to everyone and everything. So I am not shy on a one-to-one basis. Does that count? When I look at true extroverts, I marvel at their ability to work the room. To seamlessly jump from group to group. That skill can be taught - but it is more than a skill - it is a leap beyond being wrapped up in yourself, thinking that everyone is thinking about you.
bipolarla 15y ago
We are all naturally shy. The most effective leaders learn to come out of their shell. Business is often based on building connections. How many CEO's, founders, and leaders all know each other. It is for this reason companies are often drawn to Silicon Valley, New York and now China. It is so important to build your confidence to meet others. I know computers allow connection it is helpful to build both online and in person networking. We are moving more and more to an online world but I believe there is value in looking someone in the eyes (either in person or on Skype).
- kingkawn 15y ago
  This is really not true. Watching my niece grow up from birth has proven to me that some people are simply outgoing. She didn't learn it, she just was it from the get go. maybe others learn to be shy and then have to spend a lot of effort unlearning it. and of course there are many people are are naturally shy. But not by any means all of us.
  - pjscott 15y ago
    We are all pretty similar to me. At least, I am. (I think the general term for this is the typical mind fallacy: we all model others by generalizing from ourselves. It's usually a pretty reasonable way for our minds to work; after all, as humans we are much more alike than we are different.)
jseban 15y ago
Very interesting. I think you can also turn this around: 2000 Twitter followers. 900 blog subscribers. 800 Facebook friends. 700 LinkedIn contact. Countless presentations. You can't be shy." to say: "you havn't made any presentations?" "you have no blog subscribers?" "you have no tweets?" ... "you havn't made any performances?" "you have made no writings available?" => You're not an extrovert! It would be nice to have a word for the type of people who actively and volontarily reaches out to an audience when they feel that they have something that might be useful to others. As opposed to just "extrovert" which might as well someone who is all talk, a bullshitter, or a lier. Performer?
nhebb 15y ago
In a room full of introverts, I'm the guy in the corner. Well, at programmer meetups I am, anyway. Shy and introverted are two different things, but in either case it extends to electronic interactions as much as it does to person to person interactions. Plus, I think an person who makes presentations may be shy, but they are still outgoing by most standards.
- cleaver 15y ago
  Actually making presentations changes things a lot for a person. I've seen people who spoke so softly you could barely hear them improve dramatically with some practice. Try joining Toastmasters.

The Shy Connector

178 points by cleaver 15y ago

zerostar07 15y ago

Dude, it's OK that you 're an extrovert, take it easy.

philco 15y ago
The point is a good one though - has nothing to do with extroversion VS. introversion. Being a connector is about adding value selflessly. Thinking of others first, and yourself second. I would argue that at the root of all true connectors is a deep sense of altruism.
- pasbesoin 15y ago
  (Haven't looked at the OP, yet.) I think something that is too often missed is that for some if not all the motivation is not simply a "selfless" altruism. True, helping others brings a deep satisfaction. But it also is an individual step in creating the kind of world we want to inhabit. One of cooperation, to mutual benefit and enjoyment. I think some people get hung up on the term "selfless". For me, it's not selfless -- it's the essence of self. A self that seeks to be connected with and of use to other people. (And perhaps hopes a bit, but doesn't specifically expect on a case by case basis, for the same in return.) P,S. Looked at the link, but it's Flash. So, not viewing it, for now.
  - philco 15y ago
    Excellent point - I completely agree. (Interesting choice of HN name by the way, "no needs".) I often tell people the following: The world only works if you think of others first, and yourself second. If everyone thought of your needs, they'd be met by now. If you only think about your needs, you have long road ahead of you.
    - fooandbarify 15y ago
      I apologize in advance for being a pedant but since you do say you find it interesting, "pas besoin" is used in the context of [subject] don't/doesn't need [noun] rather than in the sense of having "no needs" which would be written "pas de besoin".
  - mkopinsky 15y ago
    This comment is gold. As one of my rabbis put it, the key to life is not nullification of Self, but rather the expansion of Self to include those around you. EDIT: adding missing "not".
ugh 15y ago
Ahem, does that presentation say anything else? It’s explicitly about people who are introverts. It doesn’t mention or target extroverts at all. It doesn’t say anything whatsoever negative about extroverts or imply that there is anything wrong with them.
- zerostar07 15y ago
  You don't get my point. The author claims that he does all that because he is an introvert which is not the case at all. Introverts do not try so hard to make themselves generally available. It's a choice. There's a certain ring to being an introvert lately I think? Maybe it's the new chic? A revival of teenage angst? In any case call a spade a spade.
  - kevingadd 15y ago
    Yeah, because being overwhelmed by prolonged social interaction and preferring to spend time alone makes you an extrovert. What???
    - zerostar07 15y ago
      The whole presentation is about how to avoid being all that.
      - ugh 15y ago
        It’s about getting the best of both worlds. It’s about getting some of the benefits of being an extrovert without having to act (because that’s how it feels to introverts) like one.
  - logic 15y ago
    > [...] The author claims that he [...] She.

philco 15y ago

This is incredible. Says more about what people should do to grow their network than countless books have by so called "experts".

babbling 15y ago

What he doesn't really explain is why, as an introvert who prefers being his own company, he makes such an effort?

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

icebraining 15y ago

Slightly offtopic: I think a lot of introverts are considered shy unfairly. I'm an introvert myself, and I've been always described as "shy", but I don't think I am. I have never had any problems with meeting new people, even if they supposedly "outrank" me. (In fact, as an anecdote, on my first job interview the interviewer remarked she was surprised at how relaxed I was). I tend to be quiet for two reasons. First, do you know that common saying that says that a real friend is someone who can sit with you in silence? Yeah, I can sit with anyone in silence. Never feels awkward to me. Second, I hate, truly hate small talk. When I watched George Carlin's People are Boring[1] I found myself violently agreeing. And since I instinctively follow the golden rule in those cases, and I know my interests are unusual, I tend to avoid boring others by staying quiet. What I really need is a way to distinguish true interest from politeness. But unfortunately that seems to be far too common a defect. Any other introverts who don't consider themselves shy? [1]: http://youtu.be/eyWsFfd9pqE http://youtu.be/eyWsFfd9pqE

ikirill 15y ago
I agree. In general, I find the task of "introduce yourself to a specific person" or "make a specific case for something" much much easier than "talk to people about nothing in particular", if only because there is always a specific goal that I keep in mind while talking. So long as I deliver a presentation well and impart all the main ideas, it's going well. I find that small talk is impossible to handle like that because it's too random and there is no specific easy-to-see criterion of success or failure. Others simply paying attention could indeed mean politeness rather than interest. Staying quiet, I feel, has the unfortunate side effect of making me seem asocial, and I am not quite sure that it is a viable thing to do in a social situation.
wallflower 15y ago
> Any other introverts who don't consider themselves shy? In this society, I think there is pressure for someone who has a shy friend to label them not shy. Maybe because it makes them feel better. To put inordinate emphasis on examples of their friend not being shy to support their argument that the friend is not shy. I think, in general, people will bolster whatever argument they want to bolster. To some friends, I may come across as not shy - but the reality is: Even though I do like being around people, as much I may regret/feel the pangs of being lonely sometimes, I prefer solitude and hiding in my cave regularly. Maybe that is being shy. As an example, the other day, I was referencing being shy and my friend's wife called me out on it. She claimed that I knew a lot of people (true) in a large number of areas (true). If I am not shy, then how did I meet these people? My answer was that I when I get focused on a project (be it, salsa dancing, learning how to draw/paint, helping a non-profit) - I get uber focused. In this situations, I draw people in because I am supremely interested in soaking up as much as I can about the project du jour. I recognize that I don't know much - I excel in situations where I don't know much but want to know more - and I find, especially, in non-technology situations - that you can't just Google it - you have to talk to actual people. However, most of these people I know - it is a very loose connection - we're not friends per se just friendly. I just know lots of people because I have lots of interests. I can't talk sports (didn't grow up watching football on TV like many of my peers). I can't talk politics. But I am an extremely good listener - I can draw people out on a one-to-one basis and get them to really talk about what is important to them. Not always, of course (I usually have my force fields up). However, being able to connect with someone on a non-superficial basis is a joy in my life - and it usually happens within minutes - when it happens. It is much harder to engage a group. In fact, at parties, I will be intensely soaking up the conversation (saying nothing but totally being a sponge) and my friends (extroverts) will ask me later - very annoying btw - whether I am having a good time. Usually, I am because I love hearing about other people's lives. In a group situation, I am definitely more passive - and could be seen as a non-participant. And in a way, I am. But I am listening to everyone and everything. So I am not shy on a one-to-one basis. Does that count? When I look at true extroverts, I marvel at their ability to work the room. To seamlessly jump from group to group. That skill can be taught - but it is more than a skill - it is a leap beyond being wrapped up in yourself, thinking that everyone is thinking about you.

bipolarla 15y ago

We are all naturally shy. The most effective leaders learn to come out of their shell. Business is often based on building connections. How many CEO's, founders, and leaders all know each other. It is for this reason companies are often drawn to Silicon Valley, New York and now China. It is so important to build your confidence to meet others. I know computers allow connection it is helpful to build both online and in person networking. We are moving more and more to an online world but I believe there is value in looking someone in the eyes (either in person or on Skype).

kingkawn 15y ago
This is really not true. Watching my niece grow up from birth has proven to me that some people are simply outgoing. She didn't learn it, she just was it from the get go. maybe others learn to be shy and then have to spend a lot of effort unlearning it. and of course there are many people are are naturally shy. But not by any means all of us.
- pjscott 15y ago
  We are all pretty similar to me. At least, I am. (I think the general term for this is the typical mind fallacy: we all model others by generalizing from ourselves. It's usually a pretty reasonable way for our minds to work; after all, as humans we are much more alike than we are different.)

jseban 15y ago

Very interesting. I think you can also turn this around: 2000 Twitter followers. 900 blog subscribers. 800 Facebook friends. 700 LinkedIn contact. Countless presentations. You can't be shy." to say: "you havn't made any presentations?" "you have no blog subscribers?" "you have no tweets?" ... "you havn't made any performances?" "you have made no writings available?" => You're not an extrovert! It would be nice to have a word for the type of people who actively and volontarily reaches out to an audience when they feel that they have something that might be useful to others. As opposed to just "extrovert" which might as well someone who is all talk, a bullshitter, or a lier. Performer?

nhebb 15y ago

In a room full of introverts, I'm the guy in the corner. Well, at programmer meetups I am, anyway. Shy and introverted are two different things, but in either case it extends to electronic interactions as much as it does to person to person interactions. Plus, I think an person who makes presentations may be shy, but they are still outgoing by most standards.

cleaver 15y ago
Actually making presentations changes things a lot for a person. I've seen people who spoke so softly you could barely hear them improve dramatically with some practice. Try joining Toastmasters.