4 ms·

Firstly, no “addict” wants to die from their addiction. Second, “addicts” is a tiny subset of “drug users”. “Drug users” would benefit from poison and allergen

Firstly, no “addict” wants to die from their addiction. Second, “addicts” is a tiny subset of “drug users”. “Drug users” would benefit from poison and allergen warnings, just like “food users”.

Detrytus 3y ago
> Second, “addicts” is a tiny subset of “drug users” Tiny? Does not sound believable, especially since they are explicitly excluding marijuana. If I was to give my totally uneducated guess I would give something like 40-50%
- ajmurmann 3y ago
  I'm not an expert by any stretch, but it probably varies greatly by drug. I know a lot of people who have done LSD, shrooms or MDMA. Those aren't even all physically addictive and are more like experience drugs. Probably totally different for heroin or meth.
  - whimsicalism 3y ago
    In the Hacker News bubble, it might be natural to think LSD, shrooms, MDMA, ketamine, etc. are very common drugs, but they have nothing on cocaine, opioids, methamphetamine, etc. - especially in North America, but also globally. The vast majority of people who use drugs use the latter ones and a large amount of that use is by addicts.
whimsicalism 3y ago
> Second, “addicts” is a tiny subset of “drug users”. I think you are absolutely wrong. e: Okay, now some are disagreeing about whether 30-40% of users in the last year is a 'tiny subset' or not, but I think my point has been made.
- junon 3y ago
  Why? What's your experience with dealing with populations of habitual drug users? Do you go to clubs? Parties? Raves? Backs of offices? etc?
  - whimsicalism 3y ago
    Just looking at the stats for the US, significantly more people have opioid use disorder than have ever reported using MDMA in their entire lives and using MDMA once in your entire life is a pretty generous definition of a drug 'user'. > Do you go to clubs? Parties? Raves? Backs of offices? etc? Do you live in Europe? Your description of drug use seems decidedly European to me.. America doesn't have the same MDMA use culture as in Western Europe outside of some raves, more of an opioid & amphetamine use. But I live in San Francisco so I have plenty of experience dealing with populations of habitual drug users. There are millions of Americans that are addicted to opioids and even more addicted to stimulants (illegal & legal, if you have withdrawal it is a dependence).
    - junon 3y ago
      I'm from the west coast and have lived in SF and Seattle, and now live in Germany. I still disagree with your assessment having worked in a lot of night clubs, bars, etc.
  - Rediscover 3y ago
    Living in Belltown (neighborhood of Seattle), we have a TON of addicts. Mostly alcohol. Most of the residents are great at functioning. We also have the /other/ "addicts" - crackheads (et al, sic) who show up here (Belltown) and are not part of the contributing society. The ones going to clubs/parties/raves when represented in a Venn diagram describing addicts/over-use and those not going to clubs/parties/raves and societal contributions is pretty dramatic.
- veidr 3y ago
  Well, I mean, I think you are absolutely wrong. So... Who's right? (Hint: not you)
- fullspectrumdev 3y ago
  The vast majority of drug users out there are non addicted recreational users. I guess it also depends on how you classify “drug user” or “addict”.
  - whimsicalism 3y ago
    What drugs are we talking about? I would say someone who has used a drug in the past year is a user, someone who compulsively uses or would experience withdrawal if they stopped using is an addict. I am not sure where you are getting these 'vast majority' numbers from - if you look at publicly available stats it is evidence that there is a significant proportion of people who are addicted. Look at cocaine - 4.8 million American users in last year, 1.4 million addicts - ~30% [0]. For opioids, the proportion who is addicts is even higher. We explicitly are not discussing tobacco/weed/alcohol, which have much higher non-addict uses. I guess I didn't count anabolic steroids, I am not sure what 'addiction' really means in that context. [0]: https://nida.nih.gov/publications/research-reports/cocaine/what-scope-cocaine-use-in-united-states https://nida.nih.gov/publications/research-reports/cocaine/w...
    - boomboomsubban 3y ago
      >Look at cocaine - 4.8 million American users in last year, 1.4 million addicts - ~30% Is 70% not addicted not a "vast majority?" 50.1% would be a majority, 70% seems high enough for "vast."
      - whimsicalism 3y ago
        Most drug use in America is opioids and meth both of which have higher rates of addiction. Colloquially I don't think most people would refer to 70% as a 'vast majority' or 30% as a 'tiny subset.' But if the GP meant 30-50% (when factoring in other drugs) as a 'tiny subset', then I guess we don't disagree :) See usage notes [0] [0]: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vast_majority https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vast_majority
        3y ago
chasd00 3y ago
> Firstly, no “addict” wants to die from their addiction addicts destroy their own lives and the lives of people around them and even anonymous members of the community because of their addiction. No test is going to overcome an addiction. As for recreational users, I went to plenty of raves in the 90s and if a test result said I should not take the hit of X or acid i'd been looking forward to all week i'm not sure what i'd do.

Detrytus 3y ago

> Second, “addicts” is a tiny subset of “drug users” Tiny? Does not sound believable, especially since they are explicitly excluding marijuana. If I was to give my totally uneducated guess I would give something like 40-50%

ajmurmann 3y ago
I'm not an expert by any stretch, but it probably varies greatly by drug. I know a lot of people who have done LSD, shrooms or MDMA. Those aren't even all physically addictive and are more like experience drugs. Probably totally different for heroin or meth.
- whimsicalism 3y ago
  In the Hacker News bubble, it might be natural to think LSD, shrooms, MDMA, ketamine, etc. are very common drugs, but they have nothing on cocaine, opioids, methamphetamine, etc. - especially in North America, but also globally. The vast majority of people who use drugs use the latter ones and a large amount of that use is by addicts.

whimsicalism 3y ago

> Second, “addicts” is a tiny subset of “drug users”. I think you are absolutely wrong. e: Okay, now some are disagreeing about whether 30-40% of users in the last year is a 'tiny subset' or not, but I think my point has been made.

junon 3y ago
Why? What's your experience with dealing with populations of habitual drug users? Do you go to clubs? Parties? Raves? Backs of offices? etc?
- whimsicalism 3y ago
  Just looking at the stats for the US, significantly more people have opioid use disorder than have ever reported using MDMA in their entire lives and using MDMA once in your entire life is a pretty generous definition of a drug 'user'. > Do you go to clubs? Parties? Raves? Backs of offices? etc? Do you live in Europe? Your description of drug use seems decidedly European to me.. America doesn't have the same MDMA use culture as in Western Europe outside of some raves, more of an opioid & amphetamine use. But I live in San Francisco so I have plenty of experience dealing with populations of habitual drug users. There are millions of Americans that are addicted to opioids and even more addicted to stimulants (illegal & legal, if you have withdrawal it is a dependence).
  - junon 3y ago
    I'm from the west coast and have lived in SF and Seattle, and now live in Germany. I still disagree with your assessment having worked in a lot of night clubs, bars, etc.
- Rediscover 3y ago
  Living in Belltown (neighborhood of Seattle), we have a TON of addicts. Mostly alcohol. Most of the residents are great at functioning. We also have the /other/ "addicts" - crackheads (et al, sic) who show up here (Belltown) and are not part of the contributing society. The ones going to clubs/parties/raves when represented in a Venn diagram describing addicts/over-use and those not going to clubs/parties/raves and societal contributions is pretty dramatic.
veidr 3y ago
Well, I mean, I think you are absolutely wrong. So... Who's right? (Hint: not you)
fullspectrumdev 3y ago
The vast majority of drug users out there are non addicted recreational users. I guess it also depends on how you classify “drug user” or “addict”.
- whimsicalism 3y ago
  What drugs are we talking about? I would say someone who has used a drug in the past year is a user, someone who compulsively uses or would experience withdrawal if they stopped using is an addict. I am not sure where you are getting these 'vast majority' numbers from - if you look at publicly available stats it is evidence that there is a significant proportion of people who are addicted. Look at cocaine - 4.8 million American users in last year, 1.4 million addicts - ~30% [0]. For opioids, the proportion who is addicts is even higher. We explicitly are not discussing tobacco/weed/alcohol, which have much higher non-addict uses. I guess I didn't count anabolic steroids, I am not sure what 'addiction' really means in that context. [0]: https://nida.nih.gov/publications/research-reports/cocaine/what-scope-cocaine-use-in-united-states https://nida.nih.gov/publications/research-reports/cocaine/w...
  - boomboomsubban 3y ago
    >Look at cocaine - 4.8 million American users in last year, 1.4 million addicts - ~30% Is 70% not addicted not a "vast majority?" 50.1% would be a majority, 70% seems high enough for "vast."
    - whimsicalism 3y ago
      Most drug use in America is opioids and meth both of which have higher rates of addiction. Colloquially I don't think most people would refer to 70% as a 'vast majority' or 30% as a 'tiny subset.' But if the GP meant 30-50% (when factoring in other drugs) as a 'tiny subset', then I guess we don't disagree :) See usage notes [0] [0]: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vast_majority https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vast_majority
      - 3y ago

chasd00 3y ago

> Firstly, no “addict” wants to die from their addiction addicts destroy their own lives and the lives of people around them and even anonymous members of the community because of their addiction. No test is going to overcome an addiction. As for recreational users, I went to plenty of raves in the 90s and if a test result said I should not take the hit of X or acid i'd been looking forward to all week i'm not sure what i'd do.