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I think it is worth asking questions from the Realpolitik [0] school. For example, what makes Russia objectively powerful in the international arena? Its milita

I think it is worth asking questions from the Realpolitik [0] school. For example, what makes Russia objectively powerful in the international arena? Its military? Well, besides nukes and subs, not really. Its hold on natural resources like fresh water, energy, forests, etc? I think this is a far more interesting aspect. Even if Russia is run by the most human-rights-respecting government, what would it mean for the US to have a powerful independent Russia as a competitor in a world where necessary natural resources are becoming more and more scarce? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realpolitik https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realpolitik

throw-ru-938 3y ago
> what makes Russia objectively powerful in the international arena? Could it just be inertia of thinking from the Cold War? The USSR was known to be powerful, and Russia is kinda the USSR, so it's assumed Russia has to be kinda powerful. It's going to be interesting to observe how will Russian standing in the world change, now that the war is revealing that the Tsar has no clothes.
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
Russia still operates like an empire; Moscow pulls wealth and troops in from its periphery to its centre. The people getting rich off Russian resources aren’t—to my knowledge—Siberian. They’re tIt is uniquely difficult to imagine “Russia is run by the most human-rights-respecting government” in its current configuration.
- medo-bear 3y ago
  How does that answer the question posed?
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > How does that answer the question posed? It is difficult to see a stable, liberal Russian democracy that America can and should respect without either changing its borders or massively empowering its non-ethnic Russians and peripheral regions. That’s the sort of power and wealth transfer that usually takes civil war or unconditional surrender to achieve.
    - medo-bear 3y ago
      > massively empowering its non-ethnic [Anglo-American edit] and peripheral regions Like in the US and UK and Australia and New Zealand and Canada? EDIT: RESPONSE TO BELLOW Over 14% of Texans live in poverty, and moreover, "twenty-three percent of all persons in the Texas-Mexico border counties are living under the Federal Poverty Line, and 25 percent of persons in the border counties lack health insurance." [0] [0] https://www.dshs.texas.gov/hiv-std-program/hiv-dashboard/texas-dshs-hiv-std/border-report-section-3 https://www.dshs.texas.gov/hiv-std-program/hiv-dashboard/tex...
      - babelthuap 3y ago
        US "poverty" doesn't look anything like global poverty. How many of that 14% in TX have access to a flushing toilet, clean water, food, shelter and a smartphone. Take all those people out of that 14% and willing to bet it's 1% and that's on the high side. They would be considered very well off in many regions on the planet.
        medo-bear 3y ago
        lol ok
        ianburrell 3y ago
        Most important, the US federal poverty level of $14.5k is 2.5x the Russian median income. Also, the Russian poverty rate is 12%. The poverty level is $2200.
        babelthuap 3y ago
        Good point. I have traveled all the way around this planet. I know what real poverty looks like and it doesn't look like anything going on in TX or the US period. I would gladly accept being in poverty in the US compared to those places. I would be jumping for joy to be honest. Just living here you hit the jackpot.
        3y ago
boffinAudio 3y ago
Even scarier for Americans and their Chinese debt-holders, what would a world be like with Russia and Europe united sufficiently well, economically and otherwise, that Schengen could extend from Brussels to Anadyr .. This would create an economic super-bloc that even China could not confront. I think that is the real threat to American hegemony: Europe and Russia, getting along. It'd be awesome, but not so much in Washington DC ..
- bmacho 3y ago
  Well Putin has destroyed this possibility for the next ~30 years. (Also the majority of Russians, who supported an invasion against an independent country and millions of its people.)
  - boffinAudio 3y ago
    If Putin is taken out by his own people, it could happen sooner ..
    - bmacho 3y ago
      I don't think that Russia invading Ukraine was in the air, Russian people were requiring it, it made any geopolitical sense etc. I think it happened because of Putin. But this is just an uneducated guess, I am not really involved in the topic.
      - boffinAudio 3y ago
        The subject of the genocide of Russian-speaking Ukrainians is not one that most Westerners are prepared to confront. Well, we hardly are willing to discuss our own participation in genocide (Yemen), so that's hardly surprising. But rest assured, Russians have been concerned about it for years. It is a thing for them. They know what our armed forces have been doing, even if we don't ..

throw-ru-938 3y ago

> what makes Russia objectively powerful in the international arena? Could it just be inertia of thinking from the Cold War? The USSR was known to be powerful, and Russia is kinda the USSR, so it's assumed Russia has to be kinda powerful. It's going to be interesting to observe how will Russian standing in the world change, now that the war is revealing that the Tsar has no clothes.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

Russia still operates like an empire; Moscow pulls wealth and troops in from its periphery to its centre. The people getting rich off Russian resources aren’t—to my knowledge—Siberian. They’re tIt is uniquely difficult to imagine “Russia is run by the most human-rights-respecting government” in its current configuration.

medo-bear 3y ago
How does that answer the question posed?
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > How does that answer the question posed? It is difficult to see a stable, liberal Russian democracy that America can and should respect without either changing its borders or massively empowering its non-ethnic Russians and peripheral regions. That’s the sort of power and wealth transfer that usually takes civil war or unconditional surrender to achieve.
  - medo-bear 3y ago
    > massively empowering its non-ethnic [Anglo-American edit] and peripheral regions Like in the US and UK and Australia and New Zealand and Canada? EDIT: RESPONSE TO BELLOW Over 14% of Texans live in poverty, and moreover, "twenty-three percent of all persons in the Texas-Mexico border counties are living under the Federal Poverty Line, and 25 percent of persons in the border counties lack health insurance." [0] [0] https://www.dshs.texas.gov/hiv-std-program/hiv-dashboard/texas-dshs-hiv-std/border-report-section-3 https://www.dshs.texas.gov/hiv-std-program/hiv-dashboard/tex...
    - babelthuap 3y ago
      US "poverty" doesn't look anything like global poverty. How many of that 14% in TX have access to a flushing toilet, clean water, food, shelter and a smartphone. Take all those people out of that 14% and willing to bet it's 1% and that's on the high side. They would be considered very well off in many regions on the planet.
      - medo-bear 3y ago
        lol ok
      - ianburrell 3y ago
        Most important, the US federal poverty level of $14.5k is 2.5x the Russian median income. Also, the Russian poverty rate is 12%. The poverty level is $2200.
        babelthuap 3y ago
        Good point. I have traveled all the way around this planet. I know what real poverty looks like and it doesn't look like anything going on in TX or the US period. I would gladly accept being in poverty in the US compared to those places. I would be jumping for joy to be honest. Just living here you hit the jackpot.
        3y ago

boffinAudio 3y ago

Even scarier for Americans and their Chinese debt-holders, what would a world be like with Russia and Europe united sufficiently well, economically and otherwise, that Schengen could extend from Brussels to Anadyr .. This would create an economic super-bloc that even China could not confront. I think that is the real threat to American hegemony: Europe and Russia, getting along. It'd be awesome, but not so much in Washington DC ..

bmacho 3y ago
Well Putin has destroyed this possibility for the next ~30 years. (Also the majority of Russians, who supported an invasion against an independent country and millions of its people.)
- boffinAudio 3y ago
  If Putin is taken out by his own people, it could happen sooner ..
  - bmacho 3y ago
    I don't think that Russia invading Ukraine was in the air, Russian people were requiring it, it made any geopolitical sense etc. I think it happened because of Putin. But this is just an uneducated guess, I am not really involved in the topic.
    - boffinAudio 3y ago
      The subject of the genocide of Russian-speaking Ukrainians is not one that most Westerners are prepared to confront. Well, we hardly are willing to discuss our own participation in genocide (Yemen), so that's hardly surprising. But rest assured, Russians have been concerned about it for years. It is a thing for them. They know what our armed forces have been doing, even if we don't ..