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> If you can't afford a home with a 40 hour job I think this has always been the difference between a "job" and a "career". My first full time job was making p

by nomel 3y ago

> If you can't afford a home with a 40 hour job I think this has always been the difference between a "job" and a "career". My first full time job was making pizzas. I worked 40 hours a week, dropping sauce and toppings onto squished bread. Nobody would have been able to afford a pizza if I would have been able to afford a home, in my state.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
mapt 3y ago
Have you actually examined that math? At say, 15 pizzas per person per hour, increasing your wages to $15/hour above where it was before (netting you $2500/mo for housing on top of previous wages before considering taxes/assistance) would add $1 to each pizza. There are countries that have decent access to housing for the working class which aren't somehow impossible to dine in.
- jabbany 3y ago
  I'm assuming OP means a pizza restaurant not a factory? Not a restaurant owner but I'm curious how a pizza place consistently sells 15 pizzas/hour @ 8 hours a day... let alone more More likely what's going to happen is you have "bursty" rush times where you need more people to scale up and dead times where you have minimal sales?
  - mapt 3y ago
    Pizza places are the factories of foodservice; Competitive, assembly line operations, feed a lot of people every night from a shoebox form factor with little or no seating, very low margin by comparison to other foodservice sectors. The cheese is most of the cost of your slice, and you'll have a hard time beating these prices at home. https://thinktank.pmq.com/t/how-many-pizzas-per-labour-hour/17897/14 https://thinktank.pmq.com/t/how-many-pizzas-per-labour-hour/... "With 2 Edge60 ovens and the right 4 people in the kitchen our best production has been 120 pizzas per hour." "On my best night with 4 people putting them in and 2 taking them out I can do 60 an hour. Granted, we have 4 different sauces and some of our toppings get put on after they come out of the oven, but I’m certain we can improve that number. What more can you tell us about your set up?" "We can get about 250 pizzas per hour done in a triple stack. It takes about 12 Insiders to make this happen. Drivers will also help out while they are waiting for deliveries." "We can get 120 large (16 in) pies per hr using 4 marsal and sons deck ovens. Each oven can hold 6 16 inch pies. We sell smaller sizes too, so we can do a little bit more than 120 including those. ... We do that with 4 people (2 makers, 1 tender, 1 cutter)."
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - nomel 3y ago
      If you’ve ever worked at a pizza place, or in any food service at all, you’ll understand that these numbers are peaks, during a time called “rush hour”, and can only happen for a few hours a day, probably on the weekends or sports night. These numbers aren’t sustained. And even then, this must be in a metropolis if there’s no seating. I’ve never been to, or seen, a pizza place without seating, outside of downtown SF. Pizza shops are not factories, for the majority of the day. They’re mostly empty.
      - mapt 3y ago
        Peak service throughput: Comment1: 30 pies per man-hour Comment2: 10 pies per man-hour and thinks there's room for improvement Comment3: 21 pies per man-hour Comment4: 30 pies per man-hour My assumption was a bit more conservative to account for that: 15 pies per man-hour, averaged over the course of the workday. Maybe I should have gone with 10 pies and a $1.50 increase? 7.5 pies and a $2 increase? Even with those numbers, my point holds.
        nomel 3y ago
        This math isn't realistic. Where I am, the legally mandated minimum shift length is four hours. Divide your numbers by three. Divide it by 3 or four again because this peak only happens on the weekends. And, again, I think this assumes some metropolis.
oivey 3y ago
Are you sure? Restaurant labor usually works out to a small percentage of the price of the food. Besides that, people could afford pizza back when minimum wage was much higher adjusted for inflation.
- antonjs 3y ago
  Restaurants in many ways suffer from the same thing: high rents on commercial spaces drive a lot of their cost.
- kelnos 3y ago
  I think the GP meant that their pizza job paid so poorly, if their wage had been increased enough for them to be able to buy a home, the cost of the pizza itself would have to be increased quite a bit in order for the pizza shop to stay afloat.
  - mostlyreadertom 3y ago
    But then how much would you pay people in the skilled trades (plumber, electrician, framer, architect, civil engineers)? What would be the cost of housing after the dust settle?
- AmVess 3y ago
  You have it backwards. Labor is the single largest cost of running a restaurant, followed by lease. Cost of ingredients is usually the lowest cost of running a restaurant. I know you are trying to divide all those costs up by dish, but it doesn't work that way. Source: me. I used to co-own a restaurant.
- midoridensha 3y ago
  >Restaurant labor usually works out to a small percentage of the price of the food. I don't see how this is true. It's more than 20%, since that's what you're expected to tip in the US, and that just covers the server.
fragmede 3y ago
You do realize that wasn't true in the past, right? In the 1950's, it was entirely possible for man to support a family with kids on the income from a job and not a career. There is no shortage of problems in that era, but the American dream wasn't fiction.
- lordfrito 3y ago
  > but the American dream wasn't fiction Something tells me it's still possible to live with a 1950's "American Dream" standard of living off of a $15 to $20 an hour job. No computers, no cell phones, clothes washing by hand, no eating out, etc. Generous 1000 ft. square foot house with two small bedrooms and a single car. Note that houses in Levittown ("America's First Suburb") were 750 square ft. [1] I understand GenZ wants to live in McMansions full of amenities, close to the trendy areas of town, eating out more often than they cook, as is their aspirational lifestyle. But there's nothing wrong with living small-ish, rural-ish, within your means, and building equity instead of throwing money away. I'm sure this is an unpopular opinion here. But hey, I started small, lived in some "trashy" areas of town (moved up from a trailer) and now 30 years into my career I live comfortably in a very nice place. It takes time and patience folks. [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/issues/91feb/9102house2.htm https://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/issues/91feb/9102house...
  - fragmede 3y ago
    The 1950's had no computer, no cellphone, but the electric washing machine was first patented in 1937, so we'll give them that. Part of that dream included sending the kids to college, so in terms of sheer dollar amounts, a tv and a cellphones is a pittance. Supporting a family of four on a single person's $20/hr job, living simply, isn't actually possible today, and that's not because of luxuries like a cellphone. Inflation came in unequally and wrecked everything.

by nomel 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

mapt 3y ago

Have you actually examined that math? At say, 15 pizzas per person per hour, increasing your wages to $15/hour above where it was before (netting you $2500/mo for housing on top of previous wages before considering taxes/assistance) would add $1 to each pizza. There are countries that have decent access to housing for the working class which aren't somehow impossible to dine in.

jabbany 3y ago
I'm assuming OP means a pizza restaurant not a factory? Not a restaurant owner but I'm curious how a pizza place consistently sells 15 pizzas/hour @ 8 hours a day... let alone more More likely what's going to happen is you have "bursty" rush times where you need more people to scale up and dead times where you have minimal sales?
- mapt 3y ago
  Pizza places are the factories of foodservice; Competitive, assembly line operations, feed a lot of people every night from a shoebox form factor with little or no seating, very low margin by comparison to other foodservice sectors. The cheese is most of the cost of your slice, and you'll have a hard time beating these prices at home. https://thinktank.pmq.com/t/how-many-pizzas-per-labour-hour/17897/14 https://thinktank.pmq.com/t/how-many-pizzas-per-labour-hour/... "With 2 Edge60 ovens and the right 4 people in the kitchen our best production has been 120 pizzas per hour." "On my best night with 4 people putting them in and 2 taking them out I can do 60 an hour. Granted, we have 4 different sauces and some of our toppings get put on after they come out of the oven, but I’m certain we can improve that number. What more can you tell us about your set up?" "We can get about 250 pizzas per hour done in a triple stack. It takes about 12 Insiders to make this happen. Drivers will also help out while they are waiting for deliveries." "We can get 120 large (16 in) pies per hr using 4 marsal and sons deck ovens. Each oven can hold 6 16 inch pies. We sell smaller sizes too, so we can do a little bit more than 120 including those. ... We do that with 4 people (2 makers, 1 tender, 1 cutter)."
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - nomel 3y ago
    If you’ve ever worked at a pizza place, or in any food service at all, you’ll understand that these numbers are peaks, during a time called “rush hour”, and can only happen for a few hours a day, probably on the weekends or sports night. These numbers aren’t sustained. And even then, this must be in a metropolis if there’s no seating. I’ve never been to, or seen, a pizza place without seating, outside of downtown SF. Pizza shops are not factories, for the majority of the day. They’re mostly empty.
    - mapt 3y ago
      Peak service throughput: Comment1: 30 pies per man-hour Comment2: 10 pies per man-hour and thinks there's room for improvement Comment3: 21 pies per man-hour Comment4: 30 pies per man-hour My assumption was a bit more conservative to account for that: 15 pies per man-hour, averaged over the course of the workday. Maybe I should have gone with 10 pies and a $1.50 increase? 7.5 pies and a $2 increase? Even with those numbers, my point holds.
      - nomel 3y ago
        This math isn't realistic. Where I am, the legally mandated minimum shift length is four hours. Divide your numbers by three. Divide it by 3 or four again because this peak only happens on the weekends. And, again, I think this assumes some metropolis.

oivey 3y ago

Are you sure? Restaurant labor usually works out to a small percentage of the price of the food. Besides that, people could afford pizza back when minimum wage was much higher adjusted for inflation.

antonjs 3y ago
Restaurants in many ways suffer from the same thing: high rents on commercial spaces drive a lot of their cost.
kelnos 3y ago
I think the GP meant that their pizza job paid so poorly, if their wage had been increased enough for them to be able to buy a home, the cost of the pizza itself would have to be increased quite a bit in order for the pizza shop to stay afloat.
- mostlyreadertom 3y ago
  But then how much would you pay people in the skilled trades (plumber, electrician, framer, architect, civil engineers)? What would be the cost of housing after the dust settle?
AmVess 3y ago
You have it backwards. Labor is the single largest cost of running a restaurant, followed by lease. Cost of ingredients is usually the lowest cost of running a restaurant. I know you are trying to divide all those costs up by dish, but it doesn't work that way. Source: me. I used to co-own a restaurant.
midoridensha 3y ago
>Restaurant labor usually works out to a small percentage of the price of the food. I don't see how this is true. It's more than 20%, since that's what you're expected to tip in the US, and that just covers the server.

fragmede 3y ago

You do realize that wasn't true in the past, right? In the 1950's, it was entirely possible for man to support a family with kids on the income from a job and not a career. There is no shortage of problems in that era, but the American dream wasn't fiction.

lordfrito 3y ago
> but the American dream wasn't fiction Something tells me it's still possible to live with a 1950's "American Dream" standard of living off of a $15 to $20 an hour job. No computers, no cell phones, clothes washing by hand, no eating out, etc. Generous 1000 ft. square foot house with two small bedrooms and a single car. Note that houses in Levittown ("America's First Suburb") were 750 square ft. [1] I understand GenZ wants to live in McMansions full of amenities, close to the trendy areas of town, eating out more often than they cook, as is their aspirational lifestyle. But there's nothing wrong with living small-ish, rural-ish, within your means, and building equity instead of throwing money away. I'm sure this is an unpopular opinion here. But hey, I started small, lived in some "trashy" areas of town (moved up from a trailer) and now 30 years into my career I live comfortably in a very nice place. It takes time and patience folks. [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/issues/91feb/9102house2.htm https://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/issues/91feb/9102house...
- fragmede 3y ago
  The 1950's had no computer, no cellphone, but the electric washing machine was first patented in 1937, so we'll give them that. Part of that dream included sending the kids to college, so in terms of sheer dollar amounts, a tv and a cellphones is a pittance. Supporting a family of four on a single person's $20/hr job, living simply, isn't actually possible today, and that's not because of luxuries like a cellphone. Inflation came in unequally and wrecked everything.