6 ms·
Apartment rent growth is declining, shifting the market to the tenant’s favor
- kldx 3y agohttps://archive.is/y28IG https://archive.is/y28IG
- pcurve 3y agohttps://archive.is/y28IG https://archive.is/y28IG I've been looking for a decent 1BR in Manhattan. For something clean and decent, the floor is $4,500. The 40x rent annual income requirement by many landlords, one needs to be making $180,000. sigh.
- RhysU 3y agoI am a former resident of this building, recommend it and the neighborhood highly, and they have a one bedroom for $4K. No broker fee last I knew. https://www.equityapartments.com/new-york-city/upper-west-side/parc-coliseum-apartments##unit-availability-tile https://www.equityapartments.com/new-york-city/upper-west-si... Richie and Pedro the doormen are fun if they still work there.
- throwawaysleep 3y agoWhy would you live in NY without an income like that?
- wyclif 3y agoA reasonable question. What are the non-negotiables that compel people to live in Manhattan? Is it being able to walk to noodles 24/7, or something else?
- jareklupinski 3y agoyup, when you're on a roll into the wee hours and you're hungry... there's no where else where I can have a tasty hot sandwich made for me at 2am without it being a big deal
- rcme 3y agoBeing close to work is the biggest benefit. Especially for young professionals who don’t need a lot of space and are looking to grind in their careers. Also, when they’re not working, being able to have fun is a plus.
- throwawaysleep 3y agoIf you have a job that is specifically NY based that is hard to get elsewhere and is an actual paid in money, not cachet career (i.e not working for a magazine) like banking or software, you should earn the 180K pretty easily.
- stemlord 3y agoWhy would someone live in new york city if they don't make $180k? Do you realize how out of touch the implications of that question are? There are so many nuances to life that drive people to be in certain places. NYC is a huge metropolis. Get real.
- sowbug 3y agoThis is ChatGPT's attempt to rephrase your comment in polite, constructive language. It's important to consider the various factors that influence people's choices, as the question seems to overlook the complexities of life. New York City is a vibrant and diverse metropolis with a multitude of reasons that attract individuals. Let's try to be more realistic and understanding.
- pcurve 3y agoI think some of that for sure. I can't speak for others, but for me, I actually like big cities. Watching people. Don't need to own cars to get around. Food variety. Interesting buildings. Cultural stuff. I guess that's why people in NY pay almost 45% of their after tax income towards housing related expenses, which is the highest in the U.S.
- ghaff 3y agoAside from the fact that many work there, yeah. It's often the I don't really want to leave the city to speak of unless it's a vacation, no car, tons of stuff to do and places to eat.
- klodolph 3y agoPeople live in NY, raise families, with less income. I don't know what your impression of NY is but your preferences of neighborhood and your lifestyle choices have a massive impact on your cost of living.
- Larrikin 3y agoWhat I always found interesting about Tokyo was that you could live in all of the various hotspots around the city, alone, on a semi reasonable middle class salary. You would live in a tiny little box, but you could be a 10 minute walk to the middle of Shinjuku or Shibuya. If you are single and don't care about cooking at home it really seemed like a great option. I don't know why in the US we have to be priced out of the biggest cities unless we are making a top 10% income or come from a generation of people who just happened to move there a century again.
- ttul 3y agohttp://urbankchoze.blogspot.com/2014/04/japanese-zoning.html http://urbankchoze.blogspot.com/2014/04/japanese-zoning.html
- kelnos 3y agoI suspect it's because most Americans don't want to live in a little box; culture is just different here. And not having a kitchen seems like a deal-breaker for many people (myself included; even when I was in my 20s and ate out most of the time, I don't think I would have tolerated that). And I believe some municipalities in the US won't consider a space legal to rent out if it doesn't include access to a kitchen. Of course, the real reason you have to be rich to afford a decent space in our biggest cities is because there isn't enough housing to satisfy the demand. Build more (and, critically, make it not incredibly expensive to build more), and prices will go down.
- alwayslikethis 3y agoEating out in the US is also much less affordable than it is in Asia, even countries like Japan.
- sk0g 3y agoYeah coming from Australia, the ramens were like $5 a pop instead of $20+. I couldn't even cook it for as little, never mind the labour costs involved. Oh and the food was amazingly fresh and tasty, without too much in terms of flavouring.
- jrockway 3y agoCome live in Brooklyn Heights. You can be in Manhattan in 5 minutes. I just moved out of a rent stabilized apartment that was $2450 a month for 11 years. There are many similar apartments and they can't raise the rent to "market rate" without making major improvements.
- pcurve 3y agoThanks! I do like that area. :)
- usaar333 3y agoManhattan is some of the most expensive housing in the US. It's seeing significant pressure from relocations from other places (e.g. many San Franciscans have moved there)
- quantpsychds 3y agoCheaper rentals are often not posted online because of the time and cost required. Irrespective of that, plenty of Manhattan 1 bedrooms are well below $4,500, including this one in a building with a 24-hour concierge, air conditioning, stainless steel appliances, and in-unit laundry: https://www.relatedrentals.com/apartment-rentals/new-york-city/roosevelt-island/riverwalk-crossing/1-bedroom-15-bath-28615 https://www.relatedrentals.com/apartment-rentals/new-york-ci... ($4,150)
- evanelias 3y ago> plenty of Manhattan 1 bedrooms are well below $4,500, including this one Your example listing is on Roosevelt Island. Sure, administratively it's technically the same borough / county as Manhattan. But it's not physically on Manhattan island, and doesn't command the same pricing for that reason.
- pcurve 3y agoThanks... though the listing confirmed what I said. :-( https://www.relatedrentals.com/search?city=46&field_line_special_offers_target_id_op=%3D&field_unit_special_offers_target_id_op=%3D&bedrooms=1&form-price-min=Any&form-price-max=Any&sort_by=field_availability_price_value https://www.relatedrentals.com/search?city=46&field_line_spe...
- aschearer 3y ago[flagged]
- sergiotapia 3y agoI wish the government would do more to control this terrible situation. If you can't afford a home with a 40 hour job, something is sick in this country. Even an apartment is beyond reach. Blackrock and Vanguard are blights on this planet.
- mensetmanusman 3y agoThe only thing America could do is attempt to fund the growth of new cities are invest majorly in second tier cities to support competition.
- dehrmann 3y ago> Blackrock and Vanguard are blights on this planet. Corporate landlords weren't the ones saying "you can't build here because it ruins the neighborhood's 'character.'"
- klabb3 3y agoBoth can be true. You can have cancer and bubonic plague at the same time.
- sublinear 3y agoSo much this. It's illegal to build higher density housing in so many residential zones.
- HarryHirsch 3y agoHousing as an investment vehicle is government policy - if the oligarchy insisted on a different policy it would be implemented.
- dehrmann 3y agoThere might be some corporate actors in favor of this, but housing as an investment is wildly popular among most Americans. I wouldn't be surprised if most renters support it because they see it as a vehicle to wealth rather than what prices them out of the market.
- pcthrowaway 3y agoCould someone please forward the memo to Vancouver? https://www.zumper.com/rent-research/vancouver-bc https://www.zumper.com/rent-research/vancouver-bc
- mitthrowaway2 3y agoPerhaps unlike in the US, Canadian renters are still quite far from getting the upper hand. Canadian rent gains are what you'd expect amidst rising mortgage rates and stable housing prices. US rents slowing suggest to me that US housing prices might fall.
- ttul 3y agoJust wait. In 2025, all the five year terms for those ultra cheap pandemic mortgages will reset.
- gary_0 3y agoWhen that starts to happen the Bank of Canada will just lower interest rates to 1% again. The Canadian economy relies heavily on the real estate shell game; they're not going to risk blowing it up. (Maybe they should, and weather the pain so that the economy can go back to producing tangible value again, but that's not how politics works.)
- joot82 3y agosad but probably true, everybody in charge is invested
- ttul 3y agoThe BoC is relatively technocratic and they won't lower interests purely to help homeowners. However, given how much leverage Canadians carry, a shock to the housing sector would probably bring about a recession, which would force the bank to cut rates... at which point you do have to wonder whether house prices would just head back up to the stratosphere in short order.
- hnburnsy 3y agoThe opposite news from Boston...https://www.boston.com/real-estate/the-boston-globe/2023/06/12/boston-ma-rental-market-bidding-wars/ https://www.boston.com/real-estate/the-boston-globe/2023/06/...
- ppeetteerr 3y agoHaving lived in Boston, I can say that the city is way overpriced. You may argue that rent is in line with what people are willing to pay for it and that may be true. However, the city is failing its residents who have no protection against unreasonable increases (due to a state law) and new development is nowhere near strong enough. At least in cities like SF, Honolulu, and NYC you trade affordability for hire wages, natural beauty, and nightlife. Boston is nothing special in comparison.
- alicanK 3y agoYou are 100% right. Bostoners come to West MA.
- reducesuffering 3y agoBoston area price is easy to explain. A place doesn't need to be the #1 in any category, if it has a good mix of all of those. Boston area ranks high quality of life by any metric. Lower crime, high education, strong economy, history, sports, architecture, walkability/transit, etc. Even the weather is probably preferable on avg. when you have almost half the country in the Midwest and Texas.
- ppeetteerr 3y agoI would argue that it's just okay. You're right about being safe, tho. Man, the US is violent.
- irrational 3y agoI recently learned that some people I know who lived an what are pretty much the worst apartments in our area are paying more in rent each month than my mortgage payment for a 4k sq ft home on an acre. I haven’t looked into how much it is to rent a decent apartment in the area, but it must be double my mortgage.
- mupuff1234 3y agoStudent loan payments are set to resume later in the year which might further reduce rent pressure. (I assume that a lot of the people with student debt are renters)
- yalogin 3y agoI don't understand how. The mortgage rates are high, so many people who would otherwise have bought a home are not jumping in. So rents will go up. I have seen this happen too
- debaserab2 3y agoDemand isn’t as reduced as you might think - mortgage rates are trending a couple points under fed rates (I’m not exactly sure how but as someone who just purchased a house I can tell you that’s what I’m seeing). The house we bought we bid on it’s first day on the market - it had 4 other offers and ours only won because we went well over the asking price. This is just a Midwest city suburb too, so it’s not a market like SF or anything like that.
- usaar333 3y agoWhy would that affect anything? Reduced demand for house purchases should result in higher supply for rental housing as owners rent it out instead of sell.
- jlebar 3y agoBecause reduced demand for home purchases presumably means increased demand for renting. People have to live one way or another.
- fnordpiglet 3y agoAdditionally the driver of rent is ultimately an arbitrage argument. If I can buy a home and rent it out for more than the prevailing mortgage costs then rents must drop and home prices must rise, otherwise people will buy more property to rent out. Likewise the opposite is true. Home prices are dropping, so rent should drop too. Except for the fact that leveraged home costs are rising due to interest rates rising quickly. The article mentions some regions are seeing lots of new supply on the market so they can definitely impact the dynamic - but I don’t think coastal cities are seeing any new supply to speak of, so I doubt seriously rents are dropping in those cities. I would expect as costs to buy go up, rents will also rise assuming supply stays constant.
- davidw 3y agoIt's pretty bizarre how many people simply don't believe that supply and demand are relevant to housing https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4266459 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4266459 https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/11/us-housing-supply-shortage-crisis-2022/672240/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/11/us-housing...
- ausbah 3y ago>A year-long drop in rent would be a potential problem for the many investors who took out large loans to buy buildings where they thought they would be able to keep raising rents. a healthy economy would disincentivize this sort of behavior