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"Side note; does anyone actually think that chat gpt succeeds at rewriting things 'compassionately' or 'more intelligently'?" Often, sure. A few days ago I as

"Side note; does anyone actually think that chat gpt succeeds at rewriting things 'compassionately' or 'more intelligently'?" Often, sure. A few days ago I asked ChatGPT about a situation that needed compassion and wisdom. I thought it did way better than the 5 or 6 people I had talked to about it. https://chat.openai.com/share/2dd26347-3fbd-483f-b567-21c040782050 https://chat.openai.com/share/2dd26347-3fbd-483f-b567-21c040... (ignore the first question, which was silly) FYI, we're going to give the dog another chance.... but I was glad ChatGPT didn't push for that. I think ChatGPT answered it pretty close to how someone well trained in both mental health therapy and dealing with dogs with severe behavior issues might handle it.

southernplaces7 3y ago
I just read the GPT snippet in the response link you gave, and while it superficially seems well written, the text is hardly what i'd call moving or good. Instead it tries just hard enough at covering all the formulaic points of empathy and sympathy to instead emerge without a human spark of either. Essentially, it reads more like a personalized distillation of a generic committee-made sympathy note. If this is today's idea of a decent compassionate note, it's a sadly bland example of what some people consider meaningful.
- robbrown451 3y ago
  Well, I guess the difference it that it didn't write it for you, it wrote it for me. And it was exactly what I needed to hear. And exactly not what humans that I talked about the situation to were providing, who tended to be all about "here's how I fixed the (supposedly) similar situation with my own dog". (which is unhelpful, given that I've had other dogs and this one is very, very different) For whatever reason, I guess they didn't think it was important to say that it is a heartbreaking situation, they didn't say "It's a tough situation, but your compassion and consideration for your dog's well-being is commendable." They didn't say "As much as we'd like to, we can't change the innate behaviors and instincts of certain breeds." They just skipped that part, like it didn't need to be said. But that's what I needed to hear. I didn't need whatever "human spark" that you imagine (but that I personally doubt you can actually demonstrate). So on that note, why don't you show me what you'd write, if you were trying to be helpful to someone in that situation? I'm genuinely interested in seeing if you can write something that isn't formulaic, that has that human spark you speak of, and that is otherwise better than the response that a machine gave me. I get it if that's too much time and effort to do, but really, it shouldn't take a lot of time at all. At least, not if you are suggesting that a doctor in an ER should take a break from saving lives to do such a thing. So please, just write a paragraph or two that shows what you'd say if a friend came to you looking for empathy in such a situation. "it's a sadly bland example of what some people consider meaningful." Again, let's hear what you think is better, the ball is in your court. As it stands, based solely on my interaction with you as well as my above interaction with ChatGPT, it looks like machines do empathy better than humans. But I am open minded to the idea that you can actually do better than the machine. Let's hear it.
- burnished 3y ago
  You're bringing in what you expect to see here then - that would qualify as a thoughtful response from a human. Or, prove it and share and example that puts it to shame by comparison. Oh, or, you could just genuinely be ignorant and struggle how to understand how other feel sometimes feel when dealing with difficult decisions.
  - robbrown451 3y ago
    :) https://photos.app.goo.gl/UjC7AxbZ4DBa7g2E6 https://photos.app.goo.gl/UjC7AxbZ4DBa7g2E6
- robbrown451 3y ago
  Just thought I'd post a quick reminder, I'd be very interested in seeing what you mean by the ChatGPT example being a "sadly bland example of what some people consider meaningful." I don't understand what that means, because you haven't shown me what kind of response you think would be better. Would you care to write one? Feel free to do one quickly, such as something a busy ER doctor would be able to put together. Otherwise, though, it's very hard to accept the idea that ChatGPT did such a poor job without something to compare it to. Thanks!
burnished 3y ago
Good luck with the dog, and thank you for sharing that. I agree that was a reasonable response but I may be biased because I recently had a conversation along these lines and the hit most of the same beats. It is certainly free of the defects I mentioned. Thank you so much for the counter example, its perfect. I wonder if it is significant that you didn't ask it for a specific kind of response?
- robbrown451 3y ago
  Likewise, thanks for scoring a point for humanity. :) It's rare to get someone on the internet to appreciate a counterpoint. Yes it probably helps that I didn't ask it for advice, rather than just kind of talk to it as if it was a sounding board. I guess I'm weird that way, in that I feel it is important to talk to an AI like it is human and has feelings (saying everything from "please" to "wow that was amazing, thanks"), even if only for myself. But I've become convinced it gets better responses. Which isn't altogether surprising, if you think about how LLMs work.

southernplaces7 3y ago

I just read the GPT snippet in the response link you gave, and while it superficially seems well written, the text is hardly what i'd call moving or good. Instead it tries just hard enough at covering all the formulaic points of empathy and sympathy to instead emerge without a human spark of either. Essentially, it reads more like a personalized distillation of a generic committee-made sympathy note. If this is today's idea of a decent compassionate note, it's a sadly bland example of what some people consider meaningful.

robbrown451 3y ago
Well, I guess the difference it that it didn't write it for you, it wrote it for me. And it was exactly what I needed to hear. And exactly not what humans that I talked about the situation to were providing, who tended to be all about "here's how I fixed the (supposedly) similar situation with my own dog". (which is unhelpful, given that I've had other dogs and this one is very, very different) For whatever reason, I guess they didn't think it was important to say that it is a heartbreaking situation, they didn't say "It's a tough situation, but your compassion and consideration for your dog's well-being is commendable." They didn't say "As much as we'd like to, we can't change the innate behaviors and instincts of certain breeds." They just skipped that part, like it didn't need to be said. But that's what I needed to hear. I didn't need whatever "human spark" that you imagine (but that I personally doubt you can actually demonstrate). So on that note, why don't you show me what you'd write, if you were trying to be helpful to someone in that situation? I'm genuinely interested in seeing if you can write something that isn't formulaic, that has that human spark you speak of, and that is otherwise better than the response that a machine gave me. I get it if that's too much time and effort to do, but really, it shouldn't take a lot of time at all. At least, not if you are suggesting that a doctor in an ER should take a break from saving lives to do such a thing. So please, just write a paragraph or two that shows what you'd say if a friend came to you looking for empathy in such a situation. "it's a sadly bland example of what some people consider meaningful." Again, let's hear what you think is better, the ball is in your court. As it stands, based solely on my interaction with you as well as my above interaction with ChatGPT, it looks like machines do empathy better than humans. But I am open minded to the idea that you can actually do better than the machine. Let's hear it.
burnished 3y ago
You're bringing in what you expect to see here then - that would qualify as a thoughtful response from a human. Or, prove it and share and example that puts it to shame by comparison. Oh, or, you could just genuinely be ignorant and struggle how to understand how other feel sometimes feel when dealing with difficult decisions.
- robbrown451 3y ago
  :) https://photos.app.goo.gl/UjC7AxbZ4DBa7g2E6 https://photos.app.goo.gl/UjC7AxbZ4DBa7g2E6
robbrown451 3y ago
Just thought I'd post a quick reminder, I'd be very interested in seeing what you mean by the ChatGPT example being a "sadly bland example of what some people consider meaningful." I don't understand what that means, because you haven't shown me what kind of response you think would be better. Would you care to write one? Feel free to do one quickly, such as something a busy ER doctor would be able to put together. Otherwise, though, it's very hard to accept the idea that ChatGPT did such a poor job without something to compare it to. Thanks!

burnished 3y ago

Good luck with the dog, and thank you for sharing that. I agree that was a reasonable response but I may be biased because I recently had a conversation along these lines and the hit most of the same beats. It is certainly free of the defects I mentioned. Thank you so much for the counter example, its perfect. I wonder if it is significant that you didn't ask it for a specific kind of response?

robbrown451 3y ago
Likewise, thanks for scoring a point for humanity. :) It's rare to get someone on the internet to appreciate a counterpoint. Yes it probably helps that I didn't ask it for advice, rather than just kind of talk to it as if it was a sounding board. I guess I'm weird that way, in that I feel it is important to talk to an AI like it is human and has feelings (saying everything from "please" to "wow that was amazing, thanks"), even if only for myself. But I've become convinced it gets better responses. Which isn't altogether surprising, if you think about how LLMs work.