7 ms·

> Everything else really isn’t worth the $65 bench fee And it's not like that is a guarantee. You might not find the cause in an hour, or two, or three -- and

> Everything else really isn’t worth the $65 bench fee And it's not like that is a guarantee. You might not find the cause in an hour, or two, or three -- and quickly you approach the cost of a replacement unit. Sometimes the problem is essentially "critical, proprietary chip/motherboard needs to be replaced" where the only option is to try to find another unit that's broken for different reason and do a transplant.

ryukafalz 3y ago
> Sometimes the problem is essentially "critical, proprietary chip/motherboard needs to be replaced" where the only option is to try to find another unit that's broken for different reason and do a transplant. This is why we need right to repair laws. If the manufacturer's still making a part, you should be able to order it straight from them.
- sigstoat 3y ago
  > If the manufacturer's still making a part, you should be able to order it straight from them. there's a hell of a jump between "right to repair" and "manufacturer has to have SKUs for every subassembly in all of their products, stock them and ship them to random internet people for a price that won't cause the same people to post articles about how $company doesn't really want their stuff to be repaired" (let's be real, that's the implied expectation)
  - ryukafalz 3y ago
    Not really. If a device is repairable but spare parts aren't made available, is it really practically repairable? The wiki page for right to repair says it well I think: > end users and independent repair providers should be able to access original spare parts and necessary tools (software as well as physical tools) at fair market conditions It doesn't necessarily have to be every subassembly. Make the schematics and chips available and repair shops can take it from there. But stocking subassemblies is indeed my expectation from a well-behaved manufacturer, whether they provide the parts themselves or partner with someone else to. Some examples: https://shop.fairphone.com/en/spare-parts https://shop.fairphone.com/en/spare-parts https://frame.work/marketplace/parts https://frame.work/marketplace/parts https://www.ifixit.com/Parts/Steam_Deck https://www.ifixit.com/Parts/Steam_Deck https://shop.mntre.com/ https://shop.mntre.com/ Clearly this is doable. And let's be real, manufacturers that do warranty repairs already have SKUs for each subassembly, assuming they actually repair the devices and don't just replace the whole thing. They just won't sell them to you, they'll only ship them to their own service centers.
    - nunuvit 3y ago
      Seems like a half-baked idea. What would the rules be for maintaining stocks of replacement parts?
      - ryukafalz 3y ago
        If you still stock them for your own service centers, you sell them to customers too. Provide to your customers the same resources you provide to your internal service staff. If you don't stock them anymore, sure, you don't stock them anymore. (I would also like to see requirements for longer product support cycles, which would go along with this but is somewhat orthogonal to the part availability concern.)
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        nunuvit 3y ago
        If they're priced reasonably, they'll be scalped. If not, what's the point?
        ryukafalz 3y ago
        You expect spare parts to be scalped? This isn't like a standalone Xbox that's useful on its own, spare parts are only useful if you have a broken device that needs that particular part, and the upper bound on price is how much the manufacturer will charge for a repair themselves. Seems like a bad deal for scalpers. I don't see people scalping Framework parts for example. They all seem to be available on their site. You seem confident that this is impossible, but it's been done.
        nunuvit 3y ago
        Sort of. I don't like the idea of mandating that companies sell replacement parts themselves. That's a new idea without any real precedent and it doesn't make sense. Imagine if that was the law. Apple could buy all of one kind of Framework's spare parts. Maybe Framework wants to reserve some so they can continue providing service themselves. Are they allowed to do that? What does the law say about replenishing stock? Is there a time limit or a minimum quantity? Parts are made in huge production runs with long lead times. Are they going to have to pay for a rush order to comply with the law? Can they afford to have only a few thousand made instead of a million? Can they afford a million? If such a law existed, there would be scalpers because there would be adversarial artificial scarcity. Either there's a steep penalty that's worth exploiting, or it's unenforceable. So no, it hasn't been done.

ryukafalz 3y ago

> Sometimes the problem is essentially "critical, proprietary chip/motherboard needs to be replaced" where the only option is to try to find another unit that's broken for different reason and do a transplant. This is why we need right to repair laws. If the manufacturer's still making a part, you should be able to order it straight from them.

sigstoat 3y ago
> If the manufacturer's still making a part, you should be able to order it straight from them. there's a hell of a jump between "right to repair" and "manufacturer has to have SKUs for every subassembly in all of their products, stock them and ship them to random internet people for a price that won't cause the same people to post articles about how $company doesn't really want their stuff to be repaired" (let's be real, that's the implied expectation)
- ryukafalz 3y ago
  Not really. If a device is repairable but spare parts aren't made available, is it really practically repairable? The wiki page for right to repair says it well I think: > end users and independent repair providers should be able to access original spare parts and necessary tools (software as well as physical tools) at fair market conditions It doesn't necessarily have to be every subassembly. Make the schematics and chips available and repair shops can take it from there. But stocking subassemblies is indeed my expectation from a well-behaved manufacturer, whether they provide the parts themselves or partner with someone else to. Some examples: https://shop.fairphone.com/en/spare-parts https://shop.fairphone.com/en/spare-parts https://frame.work/marketplace/parts https://frame.work/marketplace/parts https://www.ifixit.com/Parts/Steam_Deck https://www.ifixit.com/Parts/Steam_Deck https://shop.mntre.com/ https://shop.mntre.com/ Clearly this is doable. And let's be real, manufacturers that do warranty repairs already have SKUs for each subassembly, assuming they actually repair the devices and don't just replace the whole thing. They just won't sell them to you, they'll only ship them to their own service centers.
  - nunuvit 3y ago
    Seems like a half-baked idea. What would the rules be for maintaining stocks of replacement parts?
    - ryukafalz 3y ago
      If you still stock them for your own service centers, you sell them to customers too. Provide to your customers the same resources you provide to your internal service staff. If you don't stock them anymore, sure, you don't stock them anymore. (I would also like to see requirements for longer product support cycles, which would go along with this but is somewhat orthogonal to the part availability concern.)
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - nunuvit 3y ago
        If they're priced reasonably, they'll be scalped. If not, what's the point?
        ryukafalz 3y ago
        You expect spare parts to be scalped? This isn't like a standalone Xbox that's useful on its own, spare parts are only useful if you have a broken device that needs that particular part, and the upper bound on price is how much the manufacturer will charge for a repair themselves. Seems like a bad deal for scalpers. I don't see people scalping Framework parts for example. They all seem to be available on their site. You seem confident that this is impossible, but it's been done.
        nunuvit 3y ago
        Sort of. I don't like the idea of mandating that companies sell replacement parts themselves. That's a new idea without any real precedent and it doesn't make sense. Imagine if that was the law. Apple could buy all of one kind of Framework's spare parts. Maybe Framework wants to reserve some so they can continue providing service themselves. Are they allowed to do that? What does the law say about replenishing stock? Is there a time limit or a minimum quantity? Parts are made in huge production runs with long lead times. Are they going to have to pay for a rush order to comply with the law? Can they afford to have only a few thousand made instead of a million? Can they afford a million? If such a law existed, there would be scalpers because there would be adversarial artificial scarcity. Either there's a steep penalty that's worth exploiting, or it's unenforceable. So no, it hasn't been done.