5 ms·

everyone acting so shocked here probably hasn’t had your home robbed, your car windows broken, or been assaulted and/or robbed by a drugged out bum. at some po

by nubb 3y ago

everyone acting so shocked here probably hasn’t had your home robbed, your car windows broken, or been assaulted and/or robbed by a drugged out bum. at some point enough is enough and they gotta go. i think it’s a juvenile attitude to look down your nose at the endless victims and tell them to just be more understanding of the hardships the homeless face.

2023throwawayy 3y ago
So what is your proposed solution? All I hear is "they gotta go". Go where? On who's dime?
- 8f2ab37a-ed6c 3y ago
  To be fair there's gotta be a more cost-effective place to house the unhoused than the Castro, West Village or Beverly Hills. I'm sure we can find cheaper stretches of land somewhere in the US.
  - 2023throwawayy 3y ago
    To be fair... "Go somewhere that rich people aren't" isn't much of a solution.
    - michaelt 3y ago
      If the average home in San Francisco sells for $1.2 million, and the average home in Willard, New Mexico sells for $120,000 is it really so dreadful to help ten times as many homeless people?
      - FireBeyond 3y ago
        Tell us all about Willard's booming economy and the wide swathes of open jobs available to new residents there... ... in a town of 250 people, where nearly a third of the population lives below the poverty line. The ONLY people that benefits is the residents of SF or wherever, that successfully managed to "make it someone else's problem".
        michaelt 3y ago
        The homeless people who get a roof over their heads don't benefit from it? Really?
        FireBeyond 3y ago
        I didn't say it was without benefit, whatsoever. But it's not a net positive. Now you have a bunch of people who the local populace is going to be bitter at, because they get subsidized shelter. There's no jobs to be had, so you have people living there who are now going to be taking more from local social services (and they're not contributing particularly to local taxes). There's not much of anything to do there (and not in the whiny sense, there's near zero amenities, it's a town of 250 people). They're stuck there, because any notable services and infrastructure require a car (there's no public transit infrastructure). In my mind? All you've done is create a powder keg.
        JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > Now you have a bunch of people who the local populace is going to be bitter at, because they get subsidized shelter Versus the love they're getting from the populace now? Perfect is the enemy of the good. San Francisco is three quarters of the way towards spending its median income on its homeless [1][2][3]. That is how you generate a toxic backlash against a subgroup. Has anyone asked the homeless in San Francisco if they'd want a free apartment in Willard? When rates were lower, we could have probably paid for their mortgage for less than it costs to temporarily house them. That is the opportunity cost. [1] https://abc7news.com/sf-homeless-plan-housing-all-san-francisco-supervisor-rafael-mandelman/12760671/ https://abc7news.com/sf-homeless-plan-housing-all-san-franci... $70k/shelter bed/year [2] https://smartasset.com/retirement/average-salary-in-san-francisco https://smartasset.com/retirement/average-salary-in-san-fran... $96k/year median individual income [3] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MHICA06075A052NCEN https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MHICA06075A052NCEN $120k/year median household income
        FireBeyond 3y ago
    - 8f2ab37a-ed6c 3y ago
      That's an uncharitable read. There are market realities to the cost of real estate, there's no need to add a moralistic spin to it.
  - sharts 3y ago
    Send them to the Pelosi’s or Breed’s or Newsom’s home. “Leaders” should be leading by being in the thick off it, personally.
abeppu 3y ago
This doesn't get anyone off the street, it just nudges them away from this specific building. What's juvenile is people trying to displace the problem into just slightly different part of the same neighborhood and imagining that it's accomplished anything.
- bloody-crow 3y ago
  Clearly, the goal here is not to solve homelessness but to reduce exposure to homelessness. You don't have to hate homeless people to not want to be around them.
  - abeppu 3y ago
    But it _doesn't_ reduce exposure to homelessness. It _moves_ exposure to homelessness by a very short distance. It's one group of neighbors pushing those people to sleep on another block, where other very similar housed people will encounter them. Even if you fully don't care about homeless people and only think of them as a nuisance, this is the equivalent of shoveling the snow on your patch of sidewalk and throwing it on your neighbor's patch of sidewalk and saying, "I don't hate snow I just don't want to be around it." I walk by this library frequently (it's on 16th just east of Market) and I _have_ seen that there used to be a bunch of people there most nights, and this often isn't true anymore. But as someone who lives in the area, my "exposure to homelessness" has not in any way been reduced; I just pass tents in slightly different parts of the neighborhood.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
piloto_ciego 3y ago
[flagged]
- nubb 3y ago
  one day when you’re permanently disabled because a bum hit you with a wrench unprovoked, remember to apologize to them for putting them in that position.
  - piloto_ciego 3y ago
    That’s a bad faith non-sequitur. How often do you think that’s actually happening. Hint: not often. Have some freaking compassion dude. Do you have any data (anecdotal or otherwise) to support your world view? It’s rough as hell to be homeless…. And for what it’s worth (though it’s none of your business), I am “differently abled” - not anyone’s fault I suppose, but I am. I fully grasp what it means to not be able to do things I used to do thank you. That shouldn’t change how I treat others. I’d be mad if someone did this to me, but being mad at all similar people because of it would be folly. Show some compassion.
jrflowers 3y ago
> everyone acting so shocked here probably hasn’t had your home robbed, your car windows broken, or been assaulted and/or robbed by a drugged out bum. Brb changing my BSSID to “FBI Van #80085” as a practical step to protect my property
warent 3y ago
Well I've had my car broken into, and I've been assulted twice by homeless people--once spat on, and once physically jumped/attacked. (Edit: also the more I think about it, the more I remember other scary/dangerous incidences) Nope, none of this changes my feelings, and certainly does not grant me "depravity tokens" that I'm now allowed to cash-in. "Hello, I have five depravity-tokens from being treated badly by a homeless person, I'd like to spend it on treating them badly in return."
mAritz 3y ago
Let's say we go with your dystopian wishes and round them all up and ship them off to some other place - with all the problems that then causes just ignored. Someone now loses their home after that - let's say to a fire and they didn't have it insured for that because the house insurance market is either dysfunctional or close to it in some parts of the US. You now have 1 homeless person again. Do you also ship them off again? Do you just forever keep shipping off the unlucky and downtrodden people to some other place? What if they lost their house, but have insurance paying soon, the insurance company is just dragging their feet for a few months. They will be fine, they will be able to pay for a new house or rebuilding. But until then they might be without housing. Ship them off anyways?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- piloto_ciego 3y ago
  Let’s be real, the world view informing this sort of carceral idea typically only has one solution, and usually it’s a “final” sort of one. The goal is not to get rid of the homeless in the city, it’s to “get rid of them.” And -consciously or unconsciously- at its core, the goal is to have a group of weak people who are easy to oppress. The rhetoric hasn’t basically changed in 90 years. It’s disgusting and frankly I’m shocked to see this sort of talk on HN. Perhaps Reddit was running interference for us…
sharts 3y ago
The solution to it isn’t to cut off a vital comms channel. It is to end their lives. The problem is that nobody wants to say it.
Sparkyte 3y ago
AGREED Just a bunch of conservatives and liberals chilling. No logic people.

by nubb 3y ago

2023throwawayy 3y ago

So what is your proposed solution? All I hear is "they gotta go". Go where? On who's dime?

8f2ab37a-ed6c 3y ago
To be fair there's gotta be a more cost-effective place to house the unhoused than the Castro, West Village or Beverly Hills. I'm sure we can find cheaper stretches of land somewhere in the US.
- 2023throwawayy 3y ago
  To be fair... "Go somewhere that rich people aren't" isn't much of a solution.
  - michaelt 3y ago
    If the average home in San Francisco sells for $1.2 million, and the average home in Willard, New Mexico sells for $120,000 is it really so dreadful to help ten times as many homeless people?
    - FireBeyond 3y ago
      Tell us all about Willard's booming economy and the wide swathes of open jobs available to new residents there... ... in a town of 250 people, where nearly a third of the population lives below the poverty line. The ONLY people that benefits is the residents of SF or wherever, that successfully managed to "make it someone else's problem".
      - michaelt 3y ago
        The homeless people who get a roof over their heads don't benefit from it? Really?
        FireBeyond 3y ago
        I didn't say it was without benefit, whatsoever. But it's not a net positive. Now you have a bunch of people who the local populace is going to be bitter at, because they get subsidized shelter. There's no jobs to be had, so you have people living there who are now going to be taking more from local social services (and they're not contributing particularly to local taxes). There's not much of anything to do there (and not in the whiny sense, there's near zero amenities, it's a town of 250 people). They're stuck there, because any notable services and infrastructure require a car (there's no public transit infrastructure). In my mind? All you've done is create a powder keg.
        JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > Now you have a bunch of people who the local populace is going to be bitter at, because they get subsidized shelter Versus the love they're getting from the populace now? Perfect is the enemy of the good. San Francisco is three quarters of the way towards spending its median income on its homeless [1][2][3]. That is how you generate a toxic backlash against a subgroup. Has anyone asked the homeless in San Francisco if they'd want a free apartment in Willard? When rates were lower, we could have probably paid for their mortgage for less than it costs to temporarily house them. That is the opportunity cost. [1] https://abc7news.com/sf-homeless-plan-housing-all-san-francisco-supervisor-rafael-mandelman/12760671/ https://abc7news.com/sf-homeless-plan-housing-all-san-franci... $70k/shelter bed/year [2] https://smartasset.com/retirement/average-salary-in-san-francisco https://smartasset.com/retirement/average-salary-in-san-fran... $96k/year median individual income [3] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MHICA06075A052NCEN https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MHICA06075A052NCEN $120k/year median household income
        FireBeyond 3y ago
  - 8f2ab37a-ed6c 3y ago
    That's an uncharitable read. There are market realities to the cost of real estate, there's no need to add a moralistic spin to it.
- sharts 3y ago
  Send them to the Pelosi’s or Breed’s or Newsom’s home. “Leaders” should be leading by being in the thick off it, personally.

abeppu 3y ago

This doesn't get anyone off the street, it just nudges them away from this specific building. What's juvenile is people trying to displace the problem into just slightly different part of the same neighborhood and imagining that it's accomplished anything.

bloody-crow 3y ago
Clearly, the goal here is not to solve homelessness but to reduce exposure to homelessness. You don't have to hate homeless people to not want to be around them.
- abeppu 3y ago
  But it _doesn't_ reduce exposure to homelessness. It _moves_ exposure to homelessness by a very short distance. It's one group of neighbors pushing those people to sleep on another block, where other very similar housed people will encounter them. Even if you fully don't care about homeless people and only think of them as a nuisance, this is the equivalent of shoveling the snow on your patch of sidewalk and throwing it on your neighbor's patch of sidewalk and saying, "I don't hate snow I just don't want to be around it." I walk by this library frequently (it's on 16th just east of Market) and I _have_ seen that there used to be a bunch of people there most nights, and this often isn't true anymore. But as someone who lives in the area, my "exposure to homelessness" has not in any way been reduced; I just pass tents in slightly different parts of the neighborhood.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

piloto_ciego 3y ago

[flagged]

nubb 3y ago
one day when you’re permanently disabled because a bum hit you with a wrench unprovoked, remember to apologize to them for putting them in that position.
- piloto_ciego 3y ago
  That’s a bad faith non-sequitur. How often do you think that’s actually happening. Hint: not often. Have some freaking compassion dude. Do you have any data (anecdotal or otherwise) to support your world view? It’s rough as hell to be homeless…. And for what it’s worth (though it’s none of your business), I am “differently abled” - not anyone’s fault I suppose, but I am. I fully grasp what it means to not be able to do things I used to do thank you. That shouldn’t change how I treat others. I’d be mad if someone did this to me, but being mad at all similar people because of it would be folly. Show some compassion.

jrflowers 3y ago

> everyone acting so shocked here probably hasn’t had your home robbed, your car windows broken, or been assaulted and/or robbed by a drugged out bum. Brb changing my BSSID to “FBI Van #80085” as a practical step to protect my property

warent 3y ago

Well I've had my car broken into, and I've been assulted twice by homeless people--once spat on, and once physically jumped/attacked. (Edit: also the more I think about it, the more I remember other scary/dangerous incidences) Nope, none of this changes my feelings, and certainly does not grant me "depravity tokens" that I'm now allowed to cash-in. "Hello, I have five depravity-tokens from being treated badly by a homeless person, I'd like to spend it on treating them badly in return."

mAritz 3y ago

Let's say we go with your dystopian wishes and round them all up and ship them off to some other place - with all the problems that then causes just ignored. Someone now loses their home after that - let's say to a fire and they didn't have it insured for that because the house insurance market is either dysfunctional or close to it in some parts of the US. You now have 1 homeless person again. Do you also ship them off again? Do you just forever keep shipping off the unlucky and downtrodden people to some other place? What if they lost their house, but have insurance paying soon, the insurance company is just dragging their feet for a few months. They will be fine, they will be able to pay for a new house or rebuilding. But until then they might be without housing. Ship them off anyways?

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
piloto_ciego 3y ago
Let’s be real, the world view informing this sort of carceral idea typically only has one solution, and usually it’s a “final” sort of one. The goal is not to get rid of the homeless in the city, it’s to “get rid of them.” And -consciously or unconsciously- at its core, the goal is to have a group of weak people who are easy to oppress. The rhetoric hasn’t basically changed in 90 years. It’s disgusting and frankly I’m shocked to see this sort of talk on HN. Perhaps Reddit was running interference for us…

sharts 3y ago

The solution to it isn’t to cut off a vital comms channel. It is to end their lives. The problem is that nobody wants to say it.

Sparkyte 3y ago

AGREED Just a bunch of conservatives and liberals chilling. No logic people.