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Pithy retort: that must be a parallel dimension to suggest Discord is good for privacy. Letting ideas float around a chatroom is good but communities hopefully

Pithy retort: that must be a parallel dimension to suggest Discord is good for privacy. Letting ideas float around a chatroom is good but communities hopefully have motivated members to consolidate and publish some of the good ideas for posterity because we will lose them over time. Some places do a better job, but a lot of content is straight up locked out from the wider internet where users are required to give away credentials to a private American company just to get access to it; at least private American Reddit I could read without an account with answers to folks web searching for a quick solution. But we’re tech-savvy folk and know better, but it seems from even the Stack Overflow survey results yesterday that our industry is also trending in the wrong direction.

sweeter 3y ago
There are a few open-source projects that mirror the Discord help channels to a external website so that it is easily searchable. More people should do this in my opinion. Discord is extremely convenient and it is always very active, so naturally people will be drawn to it, but we should push for more alternatives like using matrix with a bridge to discord and indexers that mirror content to be more open and transparent. The problem is that its expensive and not everyone is capable of doing it easily, or they dont necessarily care or know why that's a good thing.
acomjean 3y ago
>motivated members to consolidate and publish some of the good ideas for posterity I think there were some sensitive documents dumped from Discord (where noone noticed them for a good while) to the public internet. So I'd say there is some truth to it being semi-private. The "Discord Leaks". https://wapo.st/3NvrkFk https://wapo.st/3NvrkFk Discord has its place, but its not generally great as a information sharing place.
Barrin92 3y ago
There's different notions of privacy. Discord isn't going to protect you from someone deliberately stalking your posting history, but it is more private in the sense that it is, first and foremost, comprised of communities who want to manage who participates. A Discord server is the equivalent of a local pub with a specific audience. And in that context not being crawlable is very much a good thing because communities require spaces that are to some extent fenced off, nobody holds a meeting in a train station. In an age were publicly scrapable information becomes subject to automated surveillance or vacuumed up by AI systems it's not surprising and justifiable that people move to walled gardens. Not to mention that a lot of discord chats are conversational. And the default for casual conversations is that they're ephemeral, for good reasons. When you have a chat in the analog world, you don't expect that to be scanned by everyone for posterity.
- TeMPOraL 3y ago
  Sure. It's not a problem that people who want a casual chat with friends or interest groups use a platform for casual chatting. I say that even though I prefer the earlier world where everything was indexed and people liked to overshare on Facebook. The problem is when you use Discord (or Slack, or IRC - yes, IRC is just as bad in this context) to run a community that's outward-facing. For example, when a large OSS project, or a foundation, decides to use Discord as its main support/hanging out channel. Participating in such group requires so big an investment of time and attention that it instantly shuts off anyone who has a day job or other interests and responsibilities. Again, this is not about causal chats - your "offtopic" forum thread probably is better off being a Discord channel. The problem is when contributing to, or receiving support from, such community requires being active on a chat group. Remember "The Tyranny of Structurelessness"[0]? That seminal article from 1970s that, for some reason, just doesn't want to die? It was posted here just three days ago[1]. It actually talks about this. What it calls "elites" that naturally grow as an informal hierarchy in a group without a strong formal hierarchy - Discord, et al. are pretty much designed to create those. The people who are able and willing to keep up with the chat flow, following it all day every day, are the ones that become those "elite", and end up running the community. -- [0] - https://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm https://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm [1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36285097 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36285097
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    >Participating in such group requires so big an investment of time and attention that it instantly shuts off anyone who has a day job or other interests and responsibilities. depending on the kind of OS project, that may be more of a boon than a hinderance. There is always good talent put off by some factors in life, but there are always a lot more actors (some bad, some simply ignorant) that may make the project more of a strain than a collaborative effort. ---- I'll also emphasize that unless you are a part of an enormous hub without proper structure, the "chat flow" isn't as heavy as you'd expect at first blush. Its much more annoying to log on and read the day's messages, but the number of relevant messages may be in the dozens that take 10 minutes to skim, not thousands that takes a part time job to parse. But even then it makes sense; for those super large OS repos, there are in fact people doing it as part or full time jobs

sweeter 3y ago

There are a few open-source projects that mirror the Discord help channels to a external website so that it is easily searchable. More people should do this in my opinion. Discord is extremely convenient and it is always very active, so naturally people will be drawn to it, but we should push for more alternatives like using matrix with a bridge to discord and indexers that mirror content to be more open and transparent. The problem is that its expensive and not everyone is capable of doing it easily, or they dont necessarily care or know why that's a good thing.

acomjean 3y ago

>motivated members to consolidate and publish some of the good ideas for posterity I think there were some sensitive documents dumped from Discord (where noone noticed them for a good while) to the public internet. So I'd say there is some truth to it being semi-private. The "Discord Leaks". https://wapo.st/3NvrkFk https://wapo.st/3NvrkFk Discord has its place, but its not generally great as a information sharing place.

Barrin92 3y ago

There's different notions of privacy. Discord isn't going to protect you from someone deliberately stalking your posting history, but it is more private in the sense that it is, first and foremost, comprised of communities who want to manage who participates. A Discord server is the equivalent of a local pub with a specific audience. And in that context not being crawlable is very much a good thing because communities require spaces that are to some extent fenced off, nobody holds a meeting in a train station. In an age were publicly scrapable information becomes subject to automated surveillance or vacuumed up by AI systems it's not surprising and justifiable that people move to walled gardens. Not to mention that a lot of discord chats are conversational. And the default for casual conversations is that they're ephemeral, for good reasons. When you have a chat in the analog world, you don't expect that to be scanned by everyone for posterity.

TeMPOraL 3y ago
Sure. It's not a problem that people who want a casual chat with friends or interest groups use a platform for casual chatting. I say that even though I prefer the earlier world where everything was indexed and people liked to overshare on Facebook. The problem is when you use Discord (or Slack, or IRC - yes, IRC is just as bad in this context) to run a community that's outward-facing. For example, when a large OSS project, or a foundation, decides to use Discord as its main support/hanging out channel. Participating in such group requires so big an investment of time and attention that it instantly shuts off anyone who has a day job or other interests and responsibilities. Again, this is not about causal chats - your "offtopic" forum thread probably is better off being a Discord channel. The problem is when contributing to, or receiving support from, such community requires being active on a chat group. Remember "The Tyranny of Structurelessness"[0]? That seminal article from 1970s that, for some reason, just doesn't want to die? It was posted here just three days ago[1]. It actually talks about this. What it calls "elites" that naturally grow as an informal hierarchy in a group without a strong formal hierarchy - Discord, et al. are pretty much designed to create those. The people who are able and willing to keep up with the chat flow, following it all day every day, are the ones that become those "elite", and end up running the community. -- [0] - https://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm https://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm [1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36285097 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36285097
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  >Participating in such group requires so big an investment of time and attention that it instantly shuts off anyone who has a day job or other interests and responsibilities. depending on the kind of OS project, that may be more of a boon than a hinderance. There is always good talent put off by some factors in life, but there are always a lot more actors (some bad, some simply ignorant) that may make the project more of a strain than a collaborative effort. ---- I'll also emphasize that unless you are a part of an enormous hub without proper structure, the "chat flow" isn't as heavy as you'd expect at first blush. Its much more annoying to log on and read the day's messages, but the number of relevant messages may be in the dozens that take 10 minutes to skim, not thousands that takes a part time job to parse. But even then it makes sense; for those super large OS repos, there are in fact people doing it as part or full time jobs