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> Dean began documenting her findings, starting with serial offenders from the Facebook groups. In a list of 17 people who reviewed SavantCare on Yelp, she foun

> Dean began documenting her findings, starting with serial offenders from the Facebook groups. In a list of 17 people who reviewed SavantCare on Yelp, she found what she called “a suspicious pattern”: 10 of them had reviewed the same dentist’s office in Los Angeles, nine had raved about the same California wedding DJ company and five claimed to have visited the same Mountain View tattoo parlor. Five of the accounts, she noticed, had even reviewed the same moving company in Florida. SMH... I mean, how difficult is it for Yelp to catch this?!? Hire a high school student with interest in data analysis, and you'll catch these idiots quickly.

LeifCarrotson 3y ago
> Hire a high school student with interest in data analysis, and you'll catch these idiots quickly. The calls are coming from inside the house! It's not in Yelp's interests to try to catch this. At least in the short term.
- marcod 3y ago
  Only because they don't factor in what their users will do when they get wind of it... become ex-users.
- kromem 3y ago
  Which turned out to be a terrible idea, because now with the importance of data integrity in training AI all these BS reviews everywhere mean Yelp, Amazon, etc are left with effectively worthless data that otherwise could have created very neat tools and offered a secondary revenue stream to just placement/ads.
timmytokyo 3y ago
It's amazing the lengths someone will go to in order to avoid doing something when the incentives run in the opposite direction.
Solvency 3y ago
"I mean, how difficult is it for Yelp to catch this?!?" The mistake you're making is assuming Yelp: * Wants to "fix" this problem. * Isn't actually complicit in this problem as a means to incentivize small business owners to sign up and pay for Yelp to help "manage their business profile".
- jiveturkey 3y ago
  And the second mistake is (if they did care) thinking this wouldn't just result in an arms race. IMHO we want easy to spot fake reviews. I want flash to come back. It was so easy to block annoyances in that day. Now we have HTML5 popups.
  - motoxpro 3y ago
    I assume you're talking about it being easy for the consumer. There is no way I would know that the same college kid copy pasted a pic from a Flordia Zilliow listing to out on a home renovation review but it's trivial to find for Yelp. So I understand the sentiment, but at least to my untrained eye, I just glance at reviews and take them as real as long as a dog walker is not mentioned at a sushi restaurant, which means they are too hard to spot for me.
bombcar 3y ago
Yelp and friends DO catch tons of this, but the people doing it keep working and working until they get past the filter. Whereas if 1024core or bombcar posts a review, and it gets blocked/shitcanned/shadowbanned/ignored/never posted, we give up and move on with our lives, we have better things to do.
hwayne 3y ago
IIRC Dan Luu had a post about this: sites do catch a lot of this but there's just so much out there that they can't catch it all, not without accidentally flagging genuine reviews and getting everyone mad at them.
- bombcar 3y ago
  They do flag tons of reviews (I think I’ve successfully had one “not five stars” review go across on ANY site, period, out of multiple tries. I don’t even bother anymore.)
pessimizer 3y ago
Most of the "Yelp is extortion" line comes from businesses that have had good reviews hidden (that they probably gave people discounts for, or paid for.) Every good hidden review is seen as an outrage. It'd be less controversial to kill bad reviews like this (because bad reviews often can be extortion or attacks on competitors), but the users would notice and also bitch. [edit: even worse, businesses that got bad reviews deleted by talking to Yelp might be characterized as "in bed with" Yelp.] A Yelp-like business is no-win imo. Voting isn't much of a signal if you let anybody who happens to walk by vote.
m463 3y ago
I think follow the money. Yelp makes 96% of its revenue on advertising. They probably make more money if reviews for a restaurant are in question. If someone spends 20 minutes clicking around on a list of restaurants to read the reviews and see if some seems genuine or fake... yelp makes lots of money. If yelp reviews were 100% trusted, everyone would just click once, and then go to the highest rated restaurant.
- aci_12 3y ago
  > Yelp makes 96% of its revenue on advertising. Think that's the root of the issue. A review system should not be in the business of advertisement or any kind which could change the review ranks
  - BizarroLand 3y ago
    They should also not be allowed to make secret deals with companies to artificially boost said companies or to downrank non-paying competitors. The problem is there's no accountability. Sure, we can sue them, but for what damages? How do you account for the value of lost business opportunities caused by Yelp selling your honestly earned ranking spot on their website to your competitor? The only way to prove they've done something wrong is to commit corporate espionage and get the proof yourself, which would then most likely invalidate the ability to use that evidence for revenge.

LeifCarrotson 3y ago

> Hire a high school student with interest in data analysis, and you'll catch these idiots quickly. The calls are coming from inside the house! It's not in Yelp's interests to try to catch this. At least in the short term.

marcod 3y ago
Only because they don't factor in what their users will do when they get wind of it... become ex-users.
kromem 3y ago
Which turned out to be a terrible idea, because now with the importance of data integrity in training AI all these BS reviews everywhere mean Yelp, Amazon, etc are left with effectively worthless data that otherwise could have created very neat tools and offered a secondary revenue stream to just placement/ads.

timmytokyo 3y ago

It's amazing the lengths someone will go to in order to avoid doing something when the incentives run in the opposite direction.

Solvency 3y ago

"I mean, how difficult is it for Yelp to catch this?!?" The mistake you're making is assuming Yelp: * Wants to "fix" this problem. * Isn't actually complicit in this problem as a means to incentivize small business owners to sign up and pay for Yelp to help "manage their business profile".

jiveturkey 3y ago
And the second mistake is (if they did care) thinking this wouldn't just result in an arms race. IMHO we want easy to spot fake reviews. I want flash to come back. It was so easy to block annoyances in that day. Now we have HTML5 popups.
- motoxpro 3y ago
  I assume you're talking about it being easy for the consumer. There is no way I would know that the same college kid copy pasted a pic from a Flordia Zilliow listing to out on a home renovation review but it's trivial to find for Yelp. So I understand the sentiment, but at least to my untrained eye, I just glance at reviews and take them as real as long as a dog walker is not mentioned at a sushi restaurant, which means they are too hard to spot for me.

bombcar 3y ago

Yelp and friends DO catch tons of this, but the people doing it keep working and working until they get past the filter. Whereas if 1024core or bombcar posts a review, and it gets blocked/shitcanned/shadowbanned/ignored/never posted, we give up and move on with our lives, we have better things to do.

hwayne 3y ago

IIRC Dan Luu had a post about this: sites do catch a lot of this but there's just so much out there that they can't catch it all, not without accidentally flagging genuine reviews and getting everyone mad at them.

bombcar 3y ago
They do flag tons of reviews (I think I’ve successfully had one “not five stars” review go across on ANY site, period, out of multiple tries. I don’t even bother anymore.)

pessimizer 3y ago

Most of the "Yelp is extortion" line comes from businesses that have had good reviews hidden (that they probably gave people discounts for, or paid for.) Every good hidden review is seen as an outrage. It'd be less controversial to kill bad reviews like this (because bad reviews often can be extortion or attacks on competitors), but the users would notice and also bitch. [edit: even worse, businesses that got bad reviews deleted by talking to Yelp might be characterized as "in bed with" Yelp.] A Yelp-like business is no-win imo. Voting isn't much of a signal if you let anybody who happens to walk by vote.

m463 3y ago

I think follow the money. Yelp makes 96% of its revenue on advertising. They probably make more money if reviews for a restaurant are in question. If someone spends 20 minutes clicking around on a list of restaurants to read the reviews and see if some seems genuine or fake... yelp makes lots of money. If yelp reviews were 100% trusted, everyone would just click once, and then go to the highest rated restaurant.

aci_12 3y ago
> Yelp makes 96% of its revenue on advertising. Think that's the root of the issue. A review system should not be in the business of advertisement or any kind which could change the review ranks
- BizarroLand 3y ago
  They should also not be allowed to make secret deals with companies to artificially boost said companies or to downrank non-paying competitors. The problem is there's no accountability. Sure, we can sue them, but for what damages? How do you account for the value of lost business opportunities caused by Yelp selling your honestly earned ranking spot on their website to your competitor? The only way to prove they've done something wrong is to commit corporate espionage and get the proof yourself, which would then most likely invalidate the ability to use that evidence for revenge.