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> While a premium VR headset built over iOS apps is a step in the right direction, we worry it could seriously hinder the device's ability to serve as a true la

> While a premium VR headset built over iOS apps is a step in the right direction, we worry it could seriously hinder the device's ability to serve as a true laptop replacement. This remains the holy grail for work focussed headsets. Can I truly replace my laptop with it? It seems the Vision Pro allows you to pair and cast screens, but not replace an entire macbook pro. A disappointment for sure but maybe it will be available in V2, V3, etc.

o1y32 3y ago
If they start with iOS, there is no way they redo it with macOS in the next version. Also the UI is completely different and the input system is different. I am definitely not going to spend $3.5k and still buy a $1k MacBook to do my work.
- culturestate 3y ago
  > I am definitely not going to spend $3.5k and still buy a $1k MacBook to do my work. I would happily spend $3.5k on an insanely portable, wraparound, multi-monitor setup for my $1k MacBook. If this thing works anywhere close to as well as they say it does for that use case, I won’t be able to get my credit card out fast enough. The fact that it could be used independently is just a cherry on top.
  - npace12 3y ago
    you can only get 1 screen streamed from the mac at 4k they said
    - rbreaves 3y ago
      Pretty sure with RDP type apps and lower res you can easily push 2 or 4 screens... but yea probably not at 4k. Sheesh that isn't even necessary for people doing productive work. Except for maybe video editors.
      - taskforcegemini 3y ago
        resolutiin requirements change dramatically when vr is involved. you don't want to be reading blurry text and pixels don't map 1:1 when "projected" in vr
    - jonhohle 3y ago
      Window layers are already separate and independently renderable. It would be great to get just all windows as opposed to a Mac desktop panel where windows are stuck inside. (Kind of how Classic apps could run within the OS X window space.) Stage Manager may have laid the groundwork for window groups operating outside the typical desktop or even virtual screen idiom.
    - jedberg 3y ago
      Ok, but that's version one. Also, not sure I need more than that. Looking at what I have open on my Mac right now, all but two (the IDE and shell) have equivalent iOS apps. So in theory I could run all of those on the Vision Pro in other windows. Pretty sure one 4k window is more than enough to handle the things I can't do on the Vision natively.
- karkisuni 3y ago
  The APIs are mostly cross-platform now, and the SoCs are the same, so the main reason you wouldn't want to just copy a Mac app to the iPad is the touch input. If eye tracking is as good as they say, that's a lot closer to a mouse than touch controls.
- jayd16 3y ago
  Kernel flavor doesn't matter. The real question is if you can install any app or is everything through a locked down app store. Even if it's MacOS, what do you think the answer to that question will be?
SkyPuncher 3y ago
With the direction they're taking all of the "Continuity" stuff, I suspect the line won't really matter in the future. You'll work near to your laptop. Programs will run directly on the laptop, but the windows (not the entire desktop) will stream to the headset. Vision Pro will manage "the space" and your laptop/desktop will run the heavy lifting.
- eddieroger 3y ago
  Yeah, that's the answer I expected, too, particularly based on Apple's video of the MacBook going black and the desktop moving to the headset. They already have the ability to broadcast a display (not even the primary) to an iPad or AppleTV, so surely the Vision Pro can receive that broadcast as well, and now you've got 1-or-many desktop windows in addition to whatever native apps exist.
- phire 3y ago
  But why not just do it on device? The CPU in Vision Pro is more than powerful enough for most tasks; It's the exact same CPU that Apple are shipping in many of their laptops. With the continuity workflow, I'll always need bring both my headset and my laptop with me if I might want to do anything beyond what the headset can do by itself. I'm also concerned about the additional latency that continuity will probably introduce. Yes, continuity is a useful feature for when I'm doing stuff that does actually need the extra processing power of a proper workstation, but it shouldn't be the only solution. (The cynical part of me is pretty sure it know the answer. Apple wants a locked down ecosystem just like they have on the ipad and iphone)
  - SkyPuncher 3y ago
    Vision Pro is powerful enough for "phone" or "tablet" type tasks, but I don't think it's powerful enough for actual work. Development, Design, Video Editing, etc, etc still require additional capacity than what the Vision Pro is offering.
    - RandallBrown 3y ago
jayd16 3y ago
You probably _already have_ a computer to use with this first gen at least. The 2 hours of battery life is going to be a longer term issue.
n8cpdx 3y ago
Except for software dev workflows, I think iPad/iOS app ecosystem is a more viable laptop replacement than the Linux app ecosystem. They claim full desktop office suite support, but it won’t run Excel. iPad runs Excel - and Logic and Final Cut and Photoshop and Affinity Designer and Outlook and… But regardless, VP is clearly positioned as a laptop display replacement, which is I think more realistic; iPhone can also be a laptop replacement (it is for many iOS users who don’t have computers) but realistically many people find a lot of value in both computing paradigms.
- LegitShady 3y ago
  I tried to run just an ipad pro for office type tasks for a while and just found it supremely limiting. Just being able to run excel isn't enough. It's positioned as a laptop replacement to justify its cost, but I don't think the ios/ipados software ecosystem in any way replaces even a windows desktop.
- chaostheory 3y ago
  I agree with your point, but Office 365 is slowly transitioning into being primarily a PWA. It should be able to run on Linux as well. The big question is if MS has a special Vision AR VR experience
goosedragons 3y ago
I don't think it will ever happen. Apple has essentially stated that the openness of macOS is not something they'd repeat. We are also on Gen 6 of the iPad Pro a device that could very easily replace a laptop both in specs and feature set that is continually hampered from doing so. And there was/is countless rumors that Xcode will finally land on iPad and the best we've gotten is locked down and limited Swift Playgrounds.

o1y32 3y ago

If they start with iOS, there is no way they redo it with macOS in the next version. Also the UI is completely different and the input system is different. I am definitely not going to spend $3.5k and still buy a $1k MacBook to do my work.

culturestate 3y ago
> I am definitely not going to spend $3.5k and still buy a $1k MacBook to do my work. I would happily spend $3.5k on an insanely portable, wraparound, multi-monitor setup for my $1k MacBook. If this thing works anywhere close to as well as they say it does for that use case, I won’t be able to get my credit card out fast enough. The fact that it could be used independently is just a cherry on top.
- npace12 3y ago
  you can only get 1 screen streamed from the mac at 4k they said
  - rbreaves 3y ago
    Pretty sure with RDP type apps and lower res you can easily push 2 or 4 screens... but yea probably not at 4k. Sheesh that isn't even necessary for people doing productive work. Except for maybe video editors.
    - taskforcegemini 3y ago
      resolutiin requirements change dramatically when vr is involved. you don't want to be reading blurry text and pixels don't map 1:1 when "projected" in vr
  - jonhohle 3y ago
    Window layers are already separate and independently renderable. It would be great to get just all windows as opposed to a Mac desktop panel where windows are stuck inside. (Kind of how Classic apps could run within the OS X window space.) Stage Manager may have laid the groundwork for window groups operating outside the typical desktop or even virtual screen idiom.
  - jedberg 3y ago
    Ok, but that's version one. Also, not sure I need more than that. Looking at what I have open on my Mac right now, all but two (the IDE and shell) have equivalent iOS apps. So in theory I could run all of those on the Vision Pro in other windows. Pretty sure one 4k window is more than enough to handle the things I can't do on the Vision natively.
karkisuni 3y ago
The APIs are mostly cross-platform now, and the SoCs are the same, so the main reason you wouldn't want to just copy a Mac app to the iPad is the touch input. If eye tracking is as good as they say, that's a lot closer to a mouse than touch controls.
jayd16 3y ago
Kernel flavor doesn't matter. The real question is if you can install any app or is everything through a locked down app store. Even if it's MacOS, what do you think the answer to that question will be?

SkyPuncher 3y ago

With the direction they're taking all of the "Continuity" stuff, I suspect the line won't really matter in the future. You'll work near to your laptop. Programs will run directly on the laptop, but the windows (not the entire desktop) will stream to the headset. Vision Pro will manage "the space" and your laptop/desktop will run the heavy lifting.

eddieroger 3y ago
Yeah, that's the answer I expected, too, particularly based on Apple's video of the MacBook going black and the desktop moving to the headset. They already have the ability to broadcast a display (not even the primary) to an iPad or AppleTV, so surely the Vision Pro can receive that broadcast as well, and now you've got 1-or-many desktop windows in addition to whatever native apps exist.
phire 3y ago
But why not just do it on device? The CPU in Vision Pro is more than powerful enough for most tasks; It's the exact same CPU that Apple are shipping in many of their laptops. With the continuity workflow, I'll always need bring both my headset and my laptop with me if I might want to do anything beyond what the headset can do by itself. I'm also concerned about the additional latency that continuity will probably introduce. Yes, continuity is a useful feature for when I'm doing stuff that does actually need the extra processing power of a proper workstation, but it shouldn't be the only solution. (The cynical part of me is pretty sure it know the answer. Apple wants a locked down ecosystem just like they have on the ipad and iphone)
- SkyPuncher 3y ago
  Vision Pro is powerful enough for "phone" or "tablet" type tasks, but I don't think it's powerful enough for actual work. Development, Design, Video Editing, etc, etc still require additional capacity than what the Vision Pro is offering.
  - RandallBrown 3y ago

jayd16 3y ago

You probably _already have_ a computer to use with this first gen at least. The 2 hours of battery life is going to be a longer term issue.

n8cpdx 3y ago

Except for software dev workflows, I think iPad/iOS app ecosystem is a more viable laptop replacement than the Linux app ecosystem. They claim full desktop office suite support, but it won’t run Excel. iPad runs Excel - and Logic and Final Cut and Photoshop and Affinity Designer and Outlook and… But regardless, VP is clearly positioned as a laptop display replacement, which is I think more realistic; iPhone can also be a laptop replacement (it is for many iOS users who don’t have computers) but realistically many people find a lot of value in both computing paradigms.

LegitShady 3y ago
I tried to run just an ipad pro for office type tasks for a while and just found it supremely limiting. Just being able to run excel isn't enough. It's positioned as a laptop replacement to justify its cost, but I don't think the ios/ipados software ecosystem in any way replaces even a windows desktop.
chaostheory 3y ago
I agree with your point, but Office 365 is slowly transitioning into being primarily a PWA. It should be able to run on Linux as well. The big question is if MS has a special Vision AR VR experience

goosedragons 3y ago

I don't think it will ever happen. Apple has essentially stated that the openness of macOS is not something they'd repeat. We are also on Gen 6 of the iPad Pro a device that could very easily replace a laptop both in specs and feature set that is continually hampered from doing so. And there was/is countless rumors that Xcode will finally land on iPad and the best we've gotten is locked down and limited Swift Playgrounds.