10 ms·

SimulaVR's Reaction to Apple

105 points by georgewsinger 3y ago

dabluecaboose 3y ago
Simula is really, really interesting to me. The whole time I was watching the Apple presentation, I was thinking about how much I'd love the spacial computing facet of the Vision Pro but with a Windows or Linux machine so I could actually do things I do regularly. Given that I don't use a laptop very much anymore, I've refrained from buying a SimulaVR machine. But I'm really, really tempted to, and depending on how it evolves I might just yeet it and get one anyway.
hirundo 3y ago
> Insanely good text clarity. Higher pixel density (35.5 PPD) than any portable VR headset currently on the market (e.g., 56% higher than the Quest Pro & 220% higher than the Valve Index). I'd order one right now if I could believe this was good enough for coding. But my only experience with VR is with an HTC Vive XR Elite headset with 1920x1920 per eye, and that turned out not to be nearly good enough to read comfortably at a reasonable font size. I'm quite willing to be convinced, but apparently the only way to do that now is to be a prospective angel investor in the company and wait for the single review unit to be passed around.
- bbor 3y ago
  Yeahhhhh probably should've left that part out... Hopefully that's a sign that they're not concerned about marketing/PR atm and are heads-down on the tech :) We can all discuss together in the launch thread next year!
- user34283 3y ago
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- dabluecaboose 3y ago
  The HTC Vive XR Elite has 19 pixels per degree (PPD). Simula claims to have 35, which if true would make a marked difference. But yeah, the problem at this stage is getting one to try.
- irskep 3y ago
  In one of the WWDC videos, they mention they reimplemented their glyph renderer to be vector-based, so text should at least not depend on first rendering to laptop-screen pixels and then to face-screen pixels. Seems like it should be state of the art at launch.
  - Groxx 3y ago
    Would you happen to have a link for that? It would certainly help, as they are currently around where I'd call the minimum necessary (likely) PPD. Every little improvement counts until they catch up to 4k monitors, where anything looks good.
    - irskep 3y ago
      It actually wasn't WWDC, it was an interview some execs did with John Gruber, which unfortunately was 2 hours long. Segment on visionOS starts here: https://youtu.be/DgLrBSQ6x7E?t=2323 https://youtu.be/DgLrBSQ6x7E?t=2323 I don't have time to dig in and grab the exact spot, but I'm pretty sure they didn't go into detail much beyond what I said. My guess is text rendering is as good as it can be with state of the art displays, from a software stack standpoint.
- SkyPuncher 3y ago
  It's also not factually true. Xreal Air (formerly Nreal Air) has 49 ppd. In "mirror" mode (aka a single giant screen), it feels like working on a 1080p projector. Not great. Not terrible. In "nebula" mode (aka virtual desktop), it feels like I'm working on 3 720p screens. Great when I need to reference multiple different sources (like during development). If I'm just focused on a single document/window, a laptop screen is better. ---- I think the tipping point is going to be at about 100 ppd. That seems like it will be the point where you can simulate a 1080p screen at roughly arms length while maintaining excel clarity.
  - CarVac 3y ago
    The Xreal isn't a wide FOV at all though, unsuitable for what SimulaVR is going for. It's more literally a head mounted display, rather than a virtual reality headset, with its 46° field of view.
    - SkyPuncher 3y ago
      I've found the Xreal's FOV sufficient for productivity. Right now, I can't really make use of things near the edge of the FOV. 46 degrees requires a lot of eye moment to make use of.
rvz 3y ago
> Simula is raising institutional capital for the mass production of our headsets. We're also soliciting angel investors who might be interested in alpha testing our Review Unit headsets (helping us form a bridge to our institutional round). More details on this below. Another one getting pumped with VC money and inevitably going to push this project for an exit. First Bitwarden, then GGML, and now SimulaVR. Not again.
- georgewsinger 3y ago
  I understand your concern, but if we were interested in a quick exit we wouldn't be working on this lol. We're looking for venture backing because getting a consumer hardware startup off the ground is really expensive!
  - foobiekr 3y ago
    You may discover that once you take money your specific interest is no longer the focus.
    - jolmg 3y ago
      I feel this is the type of business that's based on scratching their own itch. They're part of the market they aim to serve. They should still have that itch after taking the money.
- ajdude 3y ago
  This was me immediate concern when I read that paragraph. I have been closely watching this company since they first announced the headset and I really hope this isn't the beginning of the end.
- Kiro 3y ago
  What happen with ggml?
- Groxx 3y ago
  Ehhh... to put a more positive stance out there: this is absolutely the time to be looking for capital if you plan to make lots of these things in a reasonable timeframe. Doing that simply costs far too much for anyone not already a near-billionaire. Apple just validated their market, which reduces a lot of worries about its long-term viability, and may kick off a big wave of highly-funded competition. It very well may become "keep up or die", and using your existing lead is often your best tactic.
rubicon33 3y ago
> While a premium VR headset built over iOS apps is a step in the right direction, we worry it could seriously hinder the device's ability to serve as a true laptop replacement. This remains the holy grail for work focussed headsets. Can I truly replace my laptop with it? It seems the Vision Pro allows you to pair and cast screens, but not replace an entire macbook pro. A disappointment for sure but maybe it will be available in V2, V3, etc.
- o1y32 3y ago
  If they start with iOS, there is no way they redo it with macOS in the next version. Also the UI is completely different and the input system is different. I am definitely not going to spend $3.5k and still buy a $1k MacBook to do my work.
  - culturestate 3y ago
    > I am definitely not going to spend $3.5k and still buy a $1k MacBook to do my work. I would happily spend $3.5k on an insanely portable, wraparound, multi-monitor setup for my $1k MacBook. If this thing works anywhere close to as well as they say it does for that use case, I won’t be able to get my credit card out fast enough. The fact that it could be used independently is just a cherry on top.
    - npace12 3y ago
      you can only get 1 screen streamed from the mac at 4k they said
      - rbreaves 3y ago
        Pretty sure with RDP type apps and lower res you can easily push 2 or 4 screens... but yea probably not at 4k. Sheesh that isn't even necessary for people doing productive work. Except for maybe video editors.
        3y ago
bbor 3y ago
Great post - got through all important points in a very concise letter. Vision Pro is a super awkward name, but I do like that it forefronts "pro"; VR games that really blow people away without needing a ton of space are a bit far off IMO*, but we are so close to replacing laptops with something that's 1000x more convenient and powerful. I hope they're able to stick to their ambitious production schedule and they hit the shelves around the same time (early 2024). I've never rooted for any product harder than I am for SimulaVR, and that's saying a lot considering my dark days Kickstart-ing video games... *: If you disagree and love your VR games, tell me: how often do you break it out in favor of a traditional monitor? My experience tells me not very often, unless you have a great setup or are into a seated timesink game like Elite Dangerous.
- babypuncher 3y ago
  I'm not convinced this will actually replace laptops. There are clear use cases where an AR headset like Vision Pro makes a lot more sense than a laptop, but the opposite is also true. I'm skeptical that I will want to go through the effort of strapping goggles to my face just to sit on the couch and scroll through social media and catch up on email. This isn't like the rise of smartphones, where iPhones and Droids were a mostly additive experience to the dumb- and feature-phones people were using before.
  - bbor 3y ago
    I totally agree on part of that, thanks for clearing it up - I definitely don't think it will replace all laptops, or all other computing in general. We very often want to interact with computers casually or with a group. But for extended sessions of computer work (a healthily sized market, to say the least), I would be very surprised if I didn't love having 9 monitors instead of 3. And that's to say nothing of the 3D/spatial computing modalities that will develop as the platform evolves away from its 2D roots. If you're not convinced and haven't watched the awesome video/scrolling ads the marketing wizards at Apple worked up, I highly recommend it. Brings a tear to my eye ;) https://www.apple.com/apple-vision-pro/ https://www.apple.com/apple-vision-pro/
  - hiatus 3y ago
Someone 3y ago
Summary: they give a lot of praise to what Apple showed, and mention two negatives: - “they didn’t give us detailed specs” - “it seems to be tied to the iPhone/iPad ecosystem, not the macOS one” Neither of these is certain to be a negative of the product. That, combined with the repeated “we’re looking for investors” makes me wonder whether this company will survive.
- gfodor 3y ago
  Apple already showed you can bring your Mac screens into the Vision Pro. Unfortunately I don't think anyone is going to be able to compete with the frontier hardware leaders right now on desktop computing, since we're at the point where you really do need the best-in-class hardware to make it work. The other big elephant in the room for SimulaVR is Valve. Valve is working on a standalone headset, and it probably runs Linux. It's probably going to be open enough that you could get a Linux desktop environment running on it, and I'm sure many people will work on that for free. It's going to be tough for SimulaVR to survive.
jejeyyy77 3y ago
No offense, but this thing looks like junk compared to Apple/Meta's headsets.
- TuringTest 3y ago
  Apples to oranges comparison (no pun intended). SimulaVR aims to be a general computing platform allowing professional "desktop like" workflow, with the performance of a high-end laptop. For what has been revealed, Vision Pro is designed towards tablet-like content consumption.
  - criddell 3y ago
    > designed towards table-like content consumption I didn’t get that impression at all. You can stream your Mac display to it and at that point you have a real Unix system in AR/VR. That’s good enough for many of us. It seems that Simula is betting on people wanting to not need the external laptop and I think it’s a losing bet. There aren’t all that many use cases where having a Mac streaming wirelessly to your headset isn’t good enough. The use cases where having a connection to a laptop isn’t feasible are probably the same ones where you are mostly going to do be using it somewhat passively. Doing things like working in a coffee shop will probably still be done on a laptop because who wants to be a glasshole isolating themselves from an environment wearing a ring of cameras on their head? I don’t think I’d be comfortable doing that or being around somebody I don’t know doing that.
    - LegitShady 3y ago
      You can stream existing desktops/laptops to just about any mainstream headset. The issue is the software availability for the headset itself. Apple showed specifically the ios basis of this device, not the mac basis. >There aren’t all that many use cases where having a Mac streaming wirelessly to your headset isn’t good enough. It's not $3500 good enough. Its the same solution cheaper headsets use, and don't require full laptop hardware in the headset to do it.
      - 3y ago
wkat4242 3y ago
> In VR you can sit up, lean back, walk or even lay down while you compute…all in a compact form factor that saves on desk space. We believe that in 10 years, nearly every office worker in the developed world will be using VR/AR to perform their work. Ummm.. "walk"?? Reminds me of that funny Google glass parody video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3TAOYXT840 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3TAOYXT840
- kanetw 3y ago
  You probably shouldn't walk outside with our headset on, but indoors, absolutely. Turn on passthrough and off you go.
  - CharlesW 3y ago
    > You probably shouldn't walk outside with our headset on… Setting aside that griefers would pull it off your head and destroy it, why not? If you're using it for directions, it seems safer to keep your eyes on the environment than it does to split your attention.
    - wkat4242 3y ago
      Because it's distracting and fills your field of view. Even when i write something on my mobile I'd stop walking. I tripped too many times trying to do that. But the video explains it pretty well :)
    - kanetw 3y ago
      It's probably safer than looking at a phone, but the most important reason is that your field of view/camera offset vs eyes is different than you're used to and it's easy to get into a dangerous situation.
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pmontra 3y ago
A possible issue that came to my mind now: what's the weight of these headsets? Compared to glasses, which are lighter, they extend significantly from the vertical axis of the body. I wonder if we're going to develop a thick neck and/or neck pains instead of carpal tunnels. Nobody is 20 or 30 yo forever.
- somewhereoutth 3y ago
  Yes I found this with any use of a VR headset. I'm surprised not more is made of it - the neck is a very delicate structure, and surely any serious health and safety implications would cause all sorts of legal bother if nothing else.
  - jayd16 3y ago
    You build up the muscles and it's not a big deal. I've never heard of anyone getting hurt, only some fatigue at first.
    - redundantly 3y ago
      It is absolutely a big deal. Poor ergonomics in regular office environments leads to neck problems that can get extremely severe. Throwing 2-3 more pounds on your head can make that a lot worse.
- jayd16 3y ago
  Yeah they can be heavy. You'll probably want a third party strap that holds the battery. Those are usually more balanced and comfortable.
- dvngnt_ 3y ago
  my top choice is the bigscreen vr which is truly a goggle size headset
  - pmontra 3y ago
    Which is https://www.bigscreenvr.com/ https://www.bigscreenvr.com/ What are you using it for?
CharlesW 3y ago
I really feel for George and team. It seems like they're quite a ways from a commercial product, far enough so that market leaders are likely to be established by the time they'd be ready to ship. Critique #1 is about unknown implementation details, and we'll know that soon enough. In the meantime, an article on IEEE Spectrum says, "…journalists who’ve tried the device say it’s competitive with other AR/VR headsets, which offer a FOV between 100 and 120 degrees. That should place the headset’s pixels per degree around 50 to 70 PPD."¹ Critique #2 talks about the massive ecosystem advantage of the Apple Vision Pro, but I think the thesis — that HMDs will not replace PCs/laptops — is the wrong way to think about their value. ¹ https://spectrum.ieee.org/apple-vision-pro https://spectrum.ieee.org/apple-vision-pro
- LegitShady 3y ago
  >that HMDs will not replace PCs/laptops — is the wrong way to think about their value. that was how apple justified the cost of the device, so I think its a fair critique.
  - krger 3y ago
    >that was how apple justified the cost of the device, so I think its a fair critique. [Citation needed]
    - LegitShady 3y ago
      watch the event where they presented it. it replaces a laptop, a tv, a camera, etc etc is how they justified the price.
      - krger 3y ago
        I watched the event. Timecode for this specific claim, please.
- nomel 3y ago
  > that HMDs will not replace PCs/laptops — is the wrong way to think about their value For the majority of users, including most professionals, I think they absolutely will. What hurdles do you see? Most people don't need high end workstations or gaming PCs. A good majority of the "heavy" work could technically be put into the cloud (or already is, for professionals).
neom 3y ago
These guys are out here asking for VC money and a $2700 pre-order price, critiquing Apple for not publishing PPD yet... they don't publish expected battery life or weight, probably 2 of the most important specs for a "use for work" wireless VR rig....??? If I was advising these founders, I'd be advising them to do some deep soul searching right now. I can't see this going well for them at all, building a niche VR system for the 40% of developers who use linux and at the same time looking for VC funding (implying this will be a scaled business not a lifestyle business) seems like a recipe for disaster.
- bbor 3y ago
  As someone new to startups, I'd love a clarification if you find the time: what about looking for VC funding instead of traditional bank-based debt is worrying for Simula's situation? The best I could find is this little passage, which doesn't clear it up for me: Often, the defining characteristic of a scalable company is the ability to replicate, create multiple copies of a similar product or service without substantive modification rather than “one-of-a-kind” items. This can lead to decreasing marginal costs where, as production increases, the resources needed to make the next item or provide the next increment of service go down. As a very unrelated side note: I have faith in Linux, and don't think the patterns of the past necessarily will hold for the future in all cases.
  - neom 3y ago
    VC firms take ownership and work on multiples, a good investment is expected to exit with 16-20x. For that to happen, the space needs to support that type of revenue, and the business needs to support those types of unit economics. Hardware is a very expensive space, you need a lot of capital to set up a supply chain and take a HW product to market, especially something like a VR headset where (according to their blog) they're doing a lot of custom/complex things. This all needs to be made repeatable and then brought to market and then that market needs to have a consumer base to support it. How much money do you figure a startup like Simula needs to bring it's product to market just at the minimum? I was at DigitalOcean in the beginning, so I have a sense of capex heavy business. In the early days, we needed hundreds of millions of dollars to scale up the hardware, this had to come from venture AND banks. Additionally, in the instance of DO, we're talking extremely generic off the shelf hardware, nothing custom, our supply chain wasn't complex. If I was these guys, I wouldn't try to build a scaled business in a space that is emerging in the way this space is. I'd either call it a day or try to no have any investors at all, find something extremely focused, get to a small profit, and enjoy a life style business the founders can live on for the next 60 years. Of course, I'm always happy to be wrong and if they push forward I hope they win!
koolala 3y ago
Deckard's releasing as a response to Apple would be great for Spatial Computing. I'm not sure if Simula is interested in 3d spatial computing like Apple or is doing 2d spatial computing like 1980's text terminals.
- bbor 3y ago
  Curious to hear why you're giving Apple credit for pursuing 3D computing when everything I've read says the opposite (for now). E.g. https://mixed-news.com/en/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/apple_vision_pro_browser-860x484.png https://mixed-news.com/en/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/apple_v...
  - koolala 3y ago
    I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt but yeah... its not obvious yet but it easily could be.
rch 3y ago
> we are explicitly building headsets which are meant to 100% replace your PC/laptop as your primary working device. This seems like a mistake. I'd be more intrigued if the vision was for seamless experience across workstations, laptops, phones, vehicles, tablets and kiosks with or without a stylus, and immersive computing with or without a headset.
sircastor 3y ago
>Critique #1: Apple included almost no hard specs on the headset's visual capabilities (PPD or FOV). >Critique #2: The Vision Pro seems to be built on top of Apple's iPad/iPhone ecosystem, which could hinder it from becoming a true PC/laptop replacement. These are both indicators and flexes of Apple's strengths. Apple doesn't want to tell users what the hard specs are on their headset. Not because they're trying to deceive the user, but because they don't want the user to care. They don't want the experience to be hampered by comparisons to other products or considerations of "how real" the experience can be. They want it to be it's own experience. An experience where the conversation isn't ever "Which programs can I run on this..." or "how fast does it go?" because it's holistic. A big confirmation of this is how often Apple compares its products to their predecessors instead of competitor products.
- foobiekr 3y ago
  Apple is not publishing a bunch of details but what we know already means it will not be a viable monitor replacement for extended use. The same is true for SimulaVR and for the same reasons: eyestrain. Also, this -- https://www.wolframcloud.com/obj/george.w.singer/simula/png/Simula_unlimited_native_Linux_apps.png https://www.wolframcloud.com/obj/george.w.singer/simula/png/... -- is the "year of the linux desktop" of VR. I imagine someone wants that, but no.
  - schaefer 3y ago
    > we know already means it will not be a viable monitor replacement for extended use. This opinion is deeply subjective. I have a Varjo Aero, and I can use it as a daily driver (for productivity), no problem. The Vison pro looks to be lighter... and so would have better ergonomics. Notice, I don't even mention eye strain... because I personally don't experience any.
    - georgewsinger 3y ago
      The Varjo Aero has the same PPD as the Simula One :] So if you are able to daily drive it for productivity, that's a good sign you would be able to do the same with our headset. The problem with the Varjo Aero is that's it's a cord-tethered headset which needs to be attached to a powerful GPU. It doesn't run Linux Desktop natively (nor even when attached to a host) since it doesn't have Linux support. So in our opinion it doesn't actually replace a laptop, which we're taking as the "holy grail" of VR computing.
Analemma_ 3y ago
These guys seem cool, but if you're going to attack Apple, "it runs Apple's locked-down OS!" and "they don't provide hardware specs!" are not the avenues to go with. These are the exact same problems people have been berating Apple for for years/decades, and the market has repeatedly and decisively demonstrated that it doesn't give a shit.
- georgewsinger 3y ago
  Our critique isn't so much about Apple's locked down OS as much as it is "you won't be able to run powerhouse apps from macOS to get your more serious work done". We hope & expect consumers to love the Apple headset(!), because it seems better/more focused on productivity use cases than the gaming headsets currently on the market. But in order for it to "actually replace a laptop", bringing iPad/iPhone apps into VR isn't quite enough, in our opinion.
  - spacedcowboy 3y ago
    You saw the "look at your Mac and the screen appears" bit, right ? And you can (from reviews) read and interact with text on your phone, so typing on the keypad with an appropriate level of immersion seems feasible - hell maybe even with total immersion, there's a ways until they're actually launched... Given that this is a full-blown M2 on-board, I think relegating it to "just like an iPad" is a little lacking in foresight, but I guess we'll all see how it pans out...
    - bodge5000 3y ago
      > You saw the "look at your Mac and the screen appears" bit, right ? You can already do that with something like XReal Air for 10x less (both the price and the weight). > Given that this is a full-blown M2 on-board, I think relegating it to "just like an iPad" is a little lacking in foresight The ability to have multiple virtual monitors with a mac? Thats a game changer (potentially). The ability to run multiple virtual monitors with an iPad? Pretty cool I guess, not sure what I'd use them for though. It'd be nice for watching movies, but again, see above, XReal (and probably a load of others by now) already has that covered. Put it this way, theres a reason sidecar lets you use your ipad as a second display for your mac and not the other way around
5350-uiop-1130 3y ago
these tools are suppose to be about building connections. but they are prohibitive. expensive and require you to operate within a corporate walled garden. it is more about segregation.
deleted 3y ago
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yalogin 3y ago
Why position yourself next to Apple and compare yourself to them? I respect that their main value proposition is replacing the PC. That is awesome compared to Oculus which has no value prop. However I suspect Mark would pivot towards work and enterprise more now, but Android is probably a bigger hindrance to work than Apple's ecosystem, which I suspect is much closer to macOS. So Simula and others have to position themselves separately from both these big platforms.
quitit 3y ago
>Insanely good text clarity. Higher pixel density (35.5 PPD) than any portable VR headset currently on the market (e.g., 56% higher than the Quest Pro & 220% higher than the Valve Index). And on the Simula product page: > • 35.5 PPD pixel density (higher than any other portable VR headset on the market) Microsoft Hololens 2: 47 PPD (1) Varjo VR-3: 70 PPD (2) Food for thought. (1) https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/hololens/buy https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/hololens/buy (2) https://varjo.com/products/vr-3/ https://varjo.com/products/vr-3/
- kanetw 3y ago
  The Hololens 2's PPD are largely fake. There was a writeup somewhere but it's way, way below the stated number. Varjo is pretty high up there, and they're able to compete in the clarity department. But their headset is non-portable and only supports Nvidia+Windows (at least last time I checked).
  - quitit 3y ago
    While I haven't verified it, that's Microsoft's own claim so they will have their reasons for citing that number so I won't make a claim one way or the other, but have provided a link to the dispute below(1). Simula is not a shipping product, which to be fair means I should be comparing it with any announced but not yet shipping product, and probably not with products that were announced 4 years ago. (1) https://kguttag.com/2020/07/08/hololens-2-display-evaluation-part-2-comparison-to-hololens-1/ https://kguttag.com/2020/07/08/hololens-2-display-evaluation...
engcoach 3y ago
LOL they’re fucked
quitit 3y ago
>"you won't be able to run powerhouse apps from macOS to get your more serious work done". There's nothing to suggest that powerhouse apps won't be developed for visionOS. The hardware is capable and at this price point it seems that the point of apple's hardware+platform is for the Autodesk/Adobe/Avids of the world to bring 3D-first workflows to professionals. At the moment we use flat 2D paradigms to design 3D output. The VR era provides developers the opportunity to shed 2D design paradigms and operate directly in the third dimension. If the objective is to just run 2D macOS apps on VR hardware, then VR is nothing more than an expensive novelty. A VR headset can be so much more than an expensive alternative/second display. What VR is missing is "Developers developers developers", and attracting developers requires significant investment and commitment to a platform, not just a product.
freedomben 3y ago
I'm stoked that you're building this open with Linux! I'm willing to tolerate a lot of (what's the opposite of polish?) but for me it has to be open and workable with my current setup (which is all Linux), and I don't want it loaded with privacy invasive analytics. I'll put down a lot of money to buy something like that. My advice in no particular order (I know you probably already know all this but I already typed it so I'll post it): 1. Get something shipping ASAP. This space is rocketing forward now at an electic pace and the ecosystem for the average person is going to get locked behind walled gardens if something open doesn't get out there. If it were me I would try to get beta units available soon and let the open source community and early adopters run with this thing while you stabilize/polish. Don't rush to "stable" too quickly, but also don't prevent shipping too long that competitors beat you to the release line. 2. When you market this to consumers, don't hide the "Linux" part since people like me will be very attracted by that, but don't emphasize it either because most people don't know what it means. Just describe "computer workstation on your face" rather than "linux machine on your face." 3. Provide factory images so people can hack with the hardware but still escape back to supported territory. If you do this, there will be a ton of open source interest and efforts and they will not only develop awesome apps for you, but they'll port a lot of stuff too. If I were you, I'd be making open source collaboration a huge part of my strategy. 4. I would also be looking at things Valve did with the Steam Deck for tips/guidance.
tinus_hn 3y ago
The smart way to go would be something like Apple CarPlay, so in three years when the computing device is out of date, you can just use a new computing device to project into your vr headset. Not good if you want people to throw away the old headset and buy a new one, perhaps good if your selling point can be longevity and its associated advantages of cost and environmental friendliness.
- kanetw 3y ago
  Our solution to this is to make the compute modular. In a few years you can plug in a new (off-the-shelf) compute module and have a state of the art PC again.
samora 3y ago
You are mistaken in seeing iOS frameworks as a limitation. It is an advantage! It is the natural fit for the eye tracking and hand gestures because those apps will work flawlessly with no change. You are also mistaken in thinking Mac OS can't work with Vision Pro, because it can. Apple has put a trojan horse in Vision Pro by giving us any number of screens we want to use with our Macs. In the future Apple will bundle Mac OS and iOS in Vision Pro. It is the ultimate evolution of computing. This is my prediction. Vision Pro will replace both the iPhone/iPad and Mac. All of it can coexist perfectly in Vision Pro. This is what you should do. Copy Apple. Make your headset work with Android. Allow Linux and Windows to also be able to work through the headset with existing computers, by providing virtual screens. In the future you can offer a version of your headset with either Linux or Windows, but Android must definitely be in the first version of your headset. This is the only chance you have.

105 points by georgewsinger 3y ago

Simula is really, really interesting to me. The whole time I was watching the Apple presentation, I was thinking about how much I'd love the spacial computing facet of the Vision Pro but with a Windows or Linux machine so I could actually do things I do regularly. Given that I don't use a laptop very much anymore, I've refrained from buying a SimulaVR machine. But I'm really, really tempted to, and depending on how it evolves I might just yeet it and get one anyway.

hirundo 3y ago

> Insanely good text clarity. Higher pixel density (35.5 PPD) than any portable VR headset currently on the market (e.g., 56% higher than the Quest Pro & 220% higher than the Valve Index). I'd order one right now if I could believe this was good enough for coding. But my only experience with VR is with an HTC Vive XR Elite headset with 1920x1920 per eye, and that turned out not to be nearly good enough to read comfortably at a reasonable font size. I'm quite willing to be convinced, but apparently the only way to do that now is to be a prospective angel investor in the company and wait for the single review unit to be passed around.

bbor 3y ago
Yeahhhhh probably should've left that part out... Hopefully that's a sign that they're not concerned about marketing/PR atm and are heads-down on the tech :) We can all discuss together in the launch thread next year!
user34283 3y ago
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dabluecaboose 3y ago
The HTC Vive XR Elite has 19 pixels per degree (PPD). Simula claims to have 35, which if true would make a marked difference. But yeah, the problem at this stage is getting one to try.
irskep 3y ago
In one of the WWDC videos, they mention they reimplemented their glyph renderer to be vector-based, so text should at least not depend on first rendering to laptop-screen pixels and then to face-screen pixels. Seems like it should be state of the art at launch.
- Groxx 3y ago
  Would you happen to have a link for that? It would certainly help, as they are currently around where I'd call the minimum necessary (likely) PPD. Every little improvement counts until they catch up to 4k monitors, where anything looks good.
  - irskep 3y ago
    It actually wasn't WWDC, it was an interview some execs did with John Gruber, which unfortunately was 2 hours long. Segment on visionOS starts here: https://youtu.be/DgLrBSQ6x7E?t=2323 https://youtu.be/DgLrBSQ6x7E?t=2323 I don't have time to dig in and grab the exact spot, but I'm pretty sure they didn't go into detail much beyond what I said. My guess is text rendering is as good as it can be with state of the art displays, from a software stack standpoint.
SkyPuncher 3y ago
It's also not factually true. Xreal Air (formerly Nreal Air) has 49 ppd. In "mirror" mode (aka a single giant screen), it feels like working on a 1080p projector. Not great. Not terrible. In "nebula" mode (aka virtual desktop), it feels like I'm working on 3 720p screens. Great when I need to reference multiple different sources (like during development). If I'm just focused on a single document/window, a laptop screen is better. ---- I think the tipping point is going to be at about 100 ppd. That seems like it will be the point where you can simulate a 1080p screen at roughly arms length while maintaining excel clarity.
- CarVac 3y ago
  The Xreal isn't a wide FOV at all though, unsuitable for what SimulaVR is going for. It's more literally a head mounted display, rather than a virtual reality headset, with its 46° field of view.
  - SkyPuncher 3y ago
    I've found the Xreal's FOV sufficient for productivity. Right now, I can't really make use of things near the edge of the FOV. 46 degrees requires a lot of eye moment to make use of.

rvz 3y ago

> Simula is raising institutional capital for the mass production of our headsets. We're also soliciting angel investors who might be interested in alpha testing our Review Unit headsets (helping us form a bridge to our institutional round). More details on this below. Another one getting pumped with VC money and inevitably going to push this project for an exit. First Bitwarden, then GGML, and now SimulaVR. Not again.

georgewsinger 3y ago
I understand your concern, but if we were interested in a quick exit we wouldn't be working on this lol. We're looking for venture backing because getting a consumer hardware startup off the ground is really expensive!
- foobiekr 3y ago
  You may discover that once you take money your specific interest is no longer the focus.
  - jolmg 3y ago
    I feel this is the type of business that's based on scratching their own itch. They're part of the market they aim to serve. They should still have that itch after taking the money.
ajdude 3y ago
This was me immediate concern when I read that paragraph. I have been closely watching this company since they first announced the headset and I really hope this isn't the beginning of the end.
Kiro 3y ago
What happen with ggml?
Groxx 3y ago
Ehhh... to put a more positive stance out there: this is absolutely the time to be looking for capital if you plan to make lots of these things in a reasonable timeframe. Doing that simply costs far too much for anyone not already a near-billionaire. Apple just validated their market, which reduces a lot of worries about its long-term viability, and may kick off a big wave of highly-funded competition. It very well may become "keep up or die", and using your existing lead is often your best tactic.

rubicon33 3y ago

> While a premium VR headset built over iOS apps is a step in the right direction, we worry it could seriously hinder the device's ability to serve as a true laptop replacement. This remains the holy grail for work focussed headsets. Can I truly replace my laptop with it? It seems the Vision Pro allows you to pair and cast screens, but not replace an entire macbook pro. A disappointment for sure but maybe it will be available in V2, V3, etc.

o1y32 3y ago
If they start with iOS, there is no way they redo it with macOS in the next version. Also the UI is completely different and the input system is different. I am definitely not going to spend $3.5k and still buy a $1k MacBook to do my work.
- culturestate 3y ago
  > I am definitely not going to spend $3.5k and still buy a $1k MacBook to do my work. I would happily spend $3.5k on an insanely portable, wraparound, multi-monitor setup for my $1k MacBook. If this thing works anywhere close to as well as they say it does for that use case, I won’t be able to get my credit card out fast enough. The fact that it could be used independently is just a cherry on top.
  - npace12 3y ago
    you can only get 1 screen streamed from the mac at 4k they said
    - rbreaves 3y ago
      Pretty sure with RDP type apps and lower res you can easily push 2 or 4 screens... but yea probably not at 4k. Sheesh that isn't even necessary for people doing productive work. Except for maybe video editors.
      - 3y ago

bbor 3y ago

Great post - got through all important points in a very concise letter. Vision Pro is a super awkward name, but I do like that it forefronts "pro"; VR games that really blow people away without needing a ton of space are a bit far off IMO*, but we are so close to replacing laptops with something that's 1000x more convenient and powerful. I hope they're able to stick to their ambitious production schedule and they hit the shelves around the same time (early 2024). I've never rooted for any product harder than I am for SimulaVR, and that's saying a lot considering my dark days Kickstart-ing video games... *: If you disagree and love your VR games, tell me: how often do you break it out in favor of a traditional monitor? My experience tells me not very often, unless you have a great setup or are into a seated timesink game like Elite Dangerous.

babypuncher 3y ago
I'm not convinced this will actually replace laptops. There are clear use cases where an AR headset like Vision Pro makes a lot more sense than a laptop, but the opposite is also true. I'm skeptical that I will want to go through the effort of strapping goggles to my face just to sit on the couch and scroll through social media and catch up on email. This isn't like the rise of smartphones, where iPhones and Droids were a mostly additive experience to the dumb- and feature-phones people were using before.
- bbor 3y ago
  I totally agree on part of that, thanks for clearing it up - I definitely don't think it will replace all laptops, or all other computing in general. We very often want to interact with computers casually or with a group. But for extended sessions of computer work (a healthily sized market, to say the least), I would be very surprised if I didn't love having 9 monitors instead of 3. And that's to say nothing of the 3D/spatial computing modalities that will develop as the platform evolves away from its 2D roots. If you're not convinced and haven't watched the awesome video/scrolling ads the marketing wizards at Apple worked up, I highly recommend it. Brings a tear to my eye ;) https://www.apple.com/apple-vision-pro/ https://www.apple.com/apple-vision-pro/
- hiatus 3y ago

Someone 3y ago

Summary: they give a lot of praise to what Apple showed, and mention two negatives: - “they didn’t give us detailed specs” - “it seems to be tied to the iPhone/iPad ecosystem, not the macOS one” Neither of these is certain to be a negative of the product. That, combined with the repeated “we’re looking for investors” makes me wonder whether this company will survive.

gfodor 3y ago
Apple already showed you can bring your Mac screens into the Vision Pro. Unfortunately I don't think anyone is going to be able to compete with the frontier hardware leaders right now on desktop computing, since we're at the point where you really do need the best-in-class hardware to make it work. The other big elephant in the room for SimulaVR is Valve. Valve is working on a standalone headset, and it probably runs Linux. It's probably going to be open enough that you could get a Linux desktop environment running on it, and I'm sure many people will work on that for free. It's going to be tough for SimulaVR to survive.

jejeyyy77 3y ago

No offense, but this thing looks like junk compared to Apple/Meta's headsets.

TuringTest 3y ago
Apples to oranges comparison (no pun intended). SimulaVR aims to be a general computing platform allowing professional "desktop like" workflow, with the performance of a high-end laptop. For what has been revealed, Vision Pro is designed towards tablet-like content consumption.
- criddell 3y ago
  > designed towards table-like content consumption I didn’t get that impression at all. You can stream your Mac display to it and at that point you have a real Unix system in AR/VR. That’s good enough for many of us. It seems that Simula is betting on people wanting to not need the external laptop and I think it’s a losing bet. There aren’t all that many use cases where having a Mac streaming wirelessly to your headset isn’t good enough. The use cases where having a connection to a laptop isn’t feasible are probably the same ones where you are mostly going to do be using it somewhat passively. Doing things like working in a coffee shop will probably still be done on a laptop because who wants to be a glasshole isolating themselves from an environment wearing a ring of cameras on their head? I don’t think I’d be comfortable doing that or being around somebody I don’t know doing that.
  - LegitShady 3y ago
    You can stream existing desktops/laptops to just about any mainstream headset. The issue is the software availability for the headset itself. Apple showed specifically the ios basis of this device, not the mac basis. >There aren’t all that many use cases where having a Mac streaming wirelessly to your headset isn’t good enough. It's not $3500 good enough. Its the same solution cheaper headsets use, and don't require full laptop hardware in the headset to do it.
    - 3y ago

wkat4242 3y ago

> In VR you can sit up, lean back, walk or even lay down while you compute…all in a compact form factor that saves on desk space. We believe that in 10 years, nearly every office worker in the developed world will be using VR/AR to perform their work. Ummm.. "walk"?? Reminds me of that funny Google glass parody video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3TAOYXT840 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3TAOYXT840

kanetw 3y ago
You probably shouldn't walk outside with our headset on, but indoors, absolutely. Turn on passthrough and off you go.
- CharlesW 3y ago
  > You probably shouldn't walk outside with our headset on… Setting aside that griefers would pull it off your head and destroy it, why not? If you're using it for directions, it seems safer to keep your eyes on the environment than it does to split your attention.
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    Because it's distracting and fills your field of view. Even when i write something on my mobile I'd stop walking. I tripped too many times trying to do that. But the video explains it pretty well :)
  - kanetw 3y ago
    It's probably safer than looking at a phone, but the most important reason is that your field of view/camera offset vs eyes is different than you're used to and it's easy to get into a dangerous situation.
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pmontra 3y ago

A possible issue that came to my mind now: what's the weight of these headsets? Compared to glasses, which are lighter, they extend significantly from the vertical axis of the body. I wonder if we're going to develop a thick neck and/or neck pains instead of carpal tunnels. Nobody is 20 or 30 yo forever.

somewhereoutth 3y ago
Yes I found this with any use of a VR headset. I'm surprised not more is made of it - the neck is a very delicate structure, and surely any serious health and safety implications would cause all sorts of legal bother if nothing else.
- jayd16 3y ago
  You build up the muscles and it's not a big deal. I've never heard of anyone getting hurt, only some fatigue at first.
  - redundantly 3y ago
    It is absolutely a big deal. Poor ergonomics in regular office environments leads to neck problems that can get extremely severe. Throwing 2-3 more pounds on your head can make that a lot worse.
jayd16 3y ago
Yeah they can be heavy. You'll probably want a third party strap that holds the battery. Those are usually more balanced and comfortable.
dvngnt_ 3y ago
my top choice is the bigscreen vr which is truly a goggle size headset
- pmontra 3y ago
  Which is https://www.bigscreenvr.com/ https://www.bigscreenvr.com/ What are you using it for?

CharlesW 3y ago

I really feel for George and team. It seems like they're quite a ways from a commercial product, far enough so that market leaders are likely to be established by the time they'd be ready to ship. Critique #1 is about unknown implementation details, and we'll know that soon enough. In the meantime, an article on IEEE Spectrum says, "…journalists who’ve tried the device say it’s competitive with other AR/VR headsets, which offer a FOV between 100 and 120 degrees. That should place the headset’s pixels per degree around 50 to 70 PPD."¹ Critique #2 talks about the massive ecosystem advantage of the Apple Vision Pro, but I think the thesis — that HMDs will not replace PCs/laptops — is the wrong way to think about their value. ¹ https://spectrum.ieee.org/apple-vision-pro https://spectrum.ieee.org/apple-vision-pro

LegitShady 3y ago
>that HMDs will not replace PCs/laptops — is the wrong way to think about their value. that was how apple justified the cost of the device, so I think its a fair critique.
- krger 3y ago
  >that was how apple justified the cost of the device, so I think its a fair critique. [Citation needed]
  - LegitShady 3y ago
    watch the event where they presented it. it replaces a laptop, a tv, a camera, etc etc is how they justified the price.
    - krger 3y ago
      I watched the event. Timecode for this specific claim, please.
nomel 3y ago
> that HMDs will not replace PCs/laptops — is the wrong way to think about their value For the majority of users, including most professionals, I think they absolutely will. What hurdles do you see? Most people don't need high end workstations or gaming PCs. A good majority of the "heavy" work could technically be put into the cloud (or already is, for professionals).

neom 3y ago

These guys are out here asking for VC money and a $2700 pre-order price, critiquing Apple for not publishing PPD yet... they don't publish expected battery life or weight, probably 2 of the most important specs for a "use for work" wireless VR rig....??? If I was advising these founders, I'd be advising them to do some deep soul searching right now. I can't see this going well for them at all, building a niche VR system for the 40% of developers who use linux and at the same time looking for VC funding (implying this will be a scaled business not a lifestyle business) seems like a recipe for disaster.

bbor 3y ago
As someone new to startups, I'd love a clarification if you find the time: what about looking for VC funding instead of traditional bank-based debt is worrying for Simula's situation? The best I could find is this little passage, which doesn't clear it up for me: Often, the defining characteristic of a scalable company is the ability to replicate, create multiple copies of a similar product or service without substantive modification rather than “one-of-a-kind” items. This can lead to decreasing marginal costs where, as production increases, the resources needed to make the next item or provide the next increment of service go down. As a very unrelated side note: I have faith in Linux, and don't think the patterns of the past necessarily will hold for the future in all cases.
- neom 3y ago
  VC firms take ownership and work on multiples, a good investment is expected to exit with 16-20x. For that to happen, the space needs to support that type of revenue, and the business needs to support those types of unit economics. Hardware is a very expensive space, you need a lot of capital to set up a supply chain and take a HW product to market, especially something like a VR headset where (according to their blog) they're doing a lot of custom/complex things. This all needs to be made repeatable and then brought to market and then that market needs to have a consumer base to support it. How much money do you figure a startup like Simula needs to bring it's product to market just at the minimum? I was at DigitalOcean in the beginning, so I have a sense of capex heavy business. In the early days, we needed hundreds of millions of dollars to scale up the hardware, this had to come from venture AND banks. Additionally, in the instance of DO, we're talking extremely generic off the shelf hardware, nothing custom, our supply chain wasn't complex. If I was these guys, I wouldn't try to build a scaled business in a space that is emerging in the way this space is. I'd either call it a day or try to no have any investors at all, find something extremely focused, get to a small profit, and enjoy a life style business the founders can live on for the next 60 years. Of course, I'm always happy to be wrong and if they push forward I hope they win!

koolala 3y ago

Deckard's releasing as a response to Apple would be great for Spatial Computing. I'm not sure if Simula is interested in 3d spatial computing like Apple or is doing 2d spatial computing like 1980's text terminals.

bbor 3y ago
Curious to hear why you're giving Apple credit for pursuing 3D computing when everything I've read says the opposite (for now). E.g. https://mixed-news.com/en/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/apple_vision_pro_browser-860x484.png https://mixed-news.com/en/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/apple_v...
- koolala 3y ago
  I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt but yeah... its not obvious yet but it easily could be.

rch 3y ago

> we are explicitly building headsets which are meant to 100% replace your PC/laptop as your primary working device. This seems like a mistake. I'd be more intrigued if the vision was for seamless experience across workstations, laptops, phones, vehicles, tablets and kiosks with or without a stylus, and immersive computing with or without a headset.

sircastor 3y ago

>Critique #1: Apple included almost no hard specs on the headset's visual capabilities (PPD or FOV). >Critique #2: The Vision Pro seems to be built on top of Apple's iPad/iPhone ecosystem, which could hinder it from becoming a true PC/laptop replacement. These are both indicators and flexes of Apple's strengths. Apple doesn't want to tell users what the hard specs are on their headset. Not because they're trying to deceive the user, but because they don't want the user to care. They don't want the experience to be hampered by comparisons to other products or considerations of "how real" the experience can be. They want it to be it's own experience. An experience where the conversation isn't ever "Which programs can I run on this..." or "how fast does it go?" because it's holistic. A big confirmation of this is how often Apple compares its products to their predecessors instead of competitor products.

foobiekr 3y ago
Apple is not publishing a bunch of details but what we know already means it will not be a viable monitor replacement for extended use. The same is true for SimulaVR and for the same reasons: eyestrain. Also, this -- https://www.wolframcloud.com/obj/george.w.singer/simula/png/Simula_unlimited_native_Linux_apps.png https://www.wolframcloud.com/obj/george.w.singer/simula/png/... -- is the "year of the linux desktop" of VR. I imagine someone wants that, but no.
- schaefer 3y ago
  > we know already means it will not be a viable monitor replacement for extended use. This opinion is deeply subjective. I have a Varjo Aero, and I can use it as a daily driver (for productivity), no problem. The Vison pro looks to be lighter... and so would have better ergonomics. Notice, I don't even mention eye strain... because I personally don't experience any.
  - georgewsinger 3y ago
    The Varjo Aero has the same PPD as the Simula One :] So if you are able to daily drive it for productivity, that's a good sign you would be able to do the same with our headset. The problem with the Varjo Aero is that's it's a cord-tethered headset which needs to be attached to a powerful GPU. It doesn't run Linux Desktop natively (nor even when attached to a host) since it doesn't have Linux support. So in our opinion it doesn't actually replace a laptop, which we're taking as the "holy grail" of VR computing.

Analemma_ 3y ago

These guys seem cool, but if you're going to attack Apple, "it runs Apple's locked-down OS!" and "they don't provide hardware specs!" are not the avenues to go with. These are the exact same problems people have been berating Apple for for years/decades, and the market has repeatedly and decisively demonstrated that it doesn't give a shit.

georgewsinger 3y ago
Our critique isn't so much about Apple's locked down OS as much as it is "you won't be able to run powerhouse apps from macOS to get your more serious work done". We hope & expect consumers to love the Apple headset(!), because it seems better/more focused on productivity use cases than the gaming headsets currently on the market. But in order for it to "actually replace a laptop", bringing iPad/iPhone apps into VR isn't quite enough, in our opinion.
- spacedcowboy 3y ago
  You saw the "look at your Mac and the screen appears" bit, right ? And you can (from reviews) read and interact with text on your phone, so typing on the keypad with an appropriate level of immersion seems feasible - hell maybe even with total immersion, there's a ways until they're actually launched... Given that this is a full-blown M2 on-board, I think relegating it to "just like an iPad" is a little lacking in foresight, but I guess we'll all see how it pans out...
  - bodge5000 3y ago
    > You saw the "look at your Mac and the screen appears" bit, right ? You can already do that with something like XReal Air for 10x less (both the price and the weight). > Given that this is a full-blown M2 on-board, I think relegating it to "just like an iPad" is a little lacking in foresight The ability to have multiple virtual monitors with a mac? Thats a game changer (potentially). The ability to run multiple virtual monitors with an iPad? Pretty cool I guess, not sure what I'd use them for though. It'd be nice for watching movies, but again, see above, XReal (and probably a load of others by now) already has that covered. Put it this way, theres a reason sidecar lets you use your ipad as a second display for your mac and not the other way around

5350-uiop-1130 3y ago

these tools are suppose to be about building connections. but they are prohibitive. expensive and require you to operate within a corporate walled garden. it is more about segregation.

deleted 3y ago

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yalogin 3y ago

Why position yourself next to Apple and compare yourself to them? I respect that their main value proposition is replacing the PC. That is awesome compared to Oculus which has no value prop. However I suspect Mark would pivot towards work and enterprise more now, but Android is probably a bigger hindrance to work than Apple's ecosystem, which I suspect is much closer to macOS. So Simula and others have to position themselves separately from both these big platforms.

quitit 3y ago

>Insanely good text clarity. Higher pixel density (35.5 PPD) than any portable VR headset currently on the market (e.g., 56% higher than the Quest Pro & 220% higher than the Valve Index). And on the Simula product page: > • 35.5 PPD pixel density (higher than any other portable VR headset on the market) Microsoft Hololens 2: 47 PPD (1) Varjo VR-3: 70 PPD (2) Food for thought. (1) https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/hololens/buy https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/hololens/buy (2) https://varjo.com/products/vr-3/ https://varjo.com/products/vr-3/

kanetw 3y ago
The Hololens 2's PPD are largely fake. There was a writeup somewhere but it's way, way below the stated number. Varjo is pretty high up there, and they're able to compete in the clarity department. But their headset is non-portable and only supports Nvidia+Windows (at least last time I checked).
- quitit 3y ago
  While I haven't verified it, that's Microsoft's own claim so they will have their reasons for citing that number so I won't make a claim one way or the other, but have provided a link to the dispute below(1). Simula is not a shipping product, which to be fair means I should be comparing it with any announced but not yet shipping product, and probably not with products that were announced 4 years ago. (1) https://kguttag.com/2020/07/08/hololens-2-display-evaluation-part-2-comparison-to-hololens-1/ https://kguttag.com/2020/07/08/hololens-2-display-evaluation...

engcoach 3y ago

LOL they’re fucked

quitit 3y ago

>"you won't be able to run powerhouse apps from macOS to get your more serious work done". There's nothing to suggest that powerhouse apps won't be developed for visionOS. The hardware is capable and at this price point it seems that the point of apple's hardware+platform is for the Autodesk/Adobe/Avids of the world to bring 3D-first workflows to professionals. At the moment we use flat 2D paradigms to design 3D output. The VR era provides developers the opportunity to shed 2D design paradigms and operate directly in the third dimension. If the objective is to just run 2D macOS apps on VR hardware, then VR is nothing more than an expensive novelty. A VR headset can be so much more than an expensive alternative/second display. What VR is missing is "Developers developers developers", and attracting developers requires significant investment and commitment to a platform, not just a product.

freedomben 3y ago

I'm stoked that you're building this open with Linux! I'm willing to tolerate a lot of (what's the opposite of polish?) but for me it has to be open and workable with my current setup (which is all Linux), and I don't want it loaded with privacy invasive analytics. I'll put down a lot of money to buy something like that. My advice in no particular order (I know you probably already know all this but I already typed it so I'll post it): 1. Get something shipping ASAP. This space is rocketing forward now at an electic pace and the ecosystem for the average person is going to get locked behind walled gardens if something open doesn't get out there. If it were me I would try to get beta units available soon and let the open source community and early adopters run with this thing while you stabilize/polish. Don't rush to "stable" too quickly, but also don't prevent shipping too long that competitors beat you to the release line. 2. When you market this to consumers, don't hide the "Linux" part since people like me will be very attracted by that, but don't emphasize it either because most people don't know what it means. Just describe "computer workstation on your face" rather than "linux machine on your face." 3. Provide factory images so people can hack with the hardware but still escape back to supported territory. If you do this, there will be a ton of open source interest and efforts and they will not only develop awesome apps for you, but they'll port a lot of stuff too. If I were you, I'd be making open source collaboration a huge part of my strategy. 4. I would also be looking at things Valve did with the Steam Deck for tips/guidance.

tinus_hn 3y ago

The smart way to go would be something like Apple CarPlay, so in three years when the computing device is out of date, you can just use a new computing device to project into your vr headset. Not good if you want people to throw away the old headset and buy a new one, perhaps good if your selling point can be longevity and its associated advantages of cost and environmental friendliness.

kanetw 3y ago
Our solution to this is to make the compute modular. In a few years you can plug in a new (off-the-shelf) compute module and have a state of the art PC again.

samora 3y ago

You are mistaken in seeing iOS frameworks as a limitation. It is an advantage! It is the natural fit for the eye tracking and hand gestures because those apps will work flawlessly with no change. You are also mistaken in thinking Mac OS can't work with Vision Pro, because it can. Apple has put a trojan horse in Vision Pro by giving us any number of screens we want to use with our Macs. In the future Apple will bundle Mac OS and iOS in Vision Pro. It is the ultimate evolution of computing. This is my prediction. Vision Pro will replace both the iPhone/iPad and Mac. All of it can coexist perfectly in Vision Pro. This is what you should do. Copy Apple. Make your headset work with Android. Allow Linux and Windows to also be able to work through the headset with existing computers, by providing virtual screens. In the future you can offer a version of your headset with either Linux or Windows, but Android must definitely be in the first version of your headset. This is the only chance you have.