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Holy cow. People are comparing Google to crypto exchanges now. Blockchains are public, yes. But the entities behind them are completely and utterly cryptic and

Holy cow. People are comparing Google to crypto exchanges now. Blockchains are public, yes. But the entities behind them are completely and utterly cryptic and centralized. Most of them operate out of Cayman Islands/Bahamas, etc. Comparing Google to crypto exchanges is insane.

throwawaypx 3y ago
Google shares private data with NSA secretly and crypto does it publicly that's the diff i could think of
vasachi 3y ago
Well, yeah. At least I can read the smart contract and audit transactions on the blockchain, if we are talking about decentralized exchanges. Google is faaaaaaaaaar less transparent. As in, not transparent at all.
- aurareturn 3y ago
  Yes, being able to read smart contracts and audit transactions on the blockchain is how everyone knew FTX stealing customer funds from years ago. Oh wait. There are a huge number of ways crypto exchanges pull of scams without anyone noticing including straight up transferring customer funds to their own accounts, wash trading, trading against their own customers, having timely "maintenance" that lead to automatic liquidations, listing securities, taking bribes to list and promote a shitcoin, and the list goes on and on. FTX drained $8 billion of customer funds over its lifetime without anyone noticing on chain until its sudden collapse.
  - EscapeFromNY 3y ago
    > Yes, being able to read smart contracts and audit transactions on the blockchain is how everyone knew FTX stealing customer funds from years ago. Yes in fact! Anyone who looked into it knew. Maybe Wall Street and VCs were duped, but the crypto industry itself saw the train wreck coming from a mile away and distanced themselves from the start. That's why when the inevitable happened, the mainstream were pumping out articles about FTX disproportionately to its importance -- they were the ones that got played. https://bitcoinmagazine.com/business/the-collapse-of-ftx-was-inevitable https://bitcoinmagazine.com/business/the-collapse-of-ftx-was... https://twitter.com/BitcoinIsSaving/status/1539605346469253120 https://twitter.com/BitcoinIsSaving/status/15396053464692531... > There are a huge number of ways crypto exchanges pull of scams There are a huge number of ways Google pulls off scams too. That's what this entire thread is about and the reason for the European Commission's complaint. Hence the comparison.
    - aurareturn 3y ago
      That's a load of revisionist history. FTX's schemes were only exposed AFTER they couldn't handle withdrawals. Anyone who follows crypto closely knows that every crypto exchange is crooked. Even crypto bros will tell you that. I can say that Binance is shady and likely stealing from their customers and I'll more likely to be correct than not. Saying FTX was shady before they were exposed was not a bold statement.
      - EscapeFromNY 3y ago
        Not revisionist, you can literally just search reddit for posts from before the collapse to confirm. https://old.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/cj5ovr/ftx_leveraged_tokens_will_scam_you/ https://old.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/cj5ovr/ftx_... (2019) https://old.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/m6b53a/sbf_alameda_group_are_a_big_scam_entity_beware_of/ https://old.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/m6b53a/sbf_... (2021) You're right about Binance, but the same wouldn't be true about Fidelity, Coinbase, Kraken, etc. People with an axe to grind about crypto like to pretend the industry is homogeneous and always complain about the likes of FTX and Binance (who are in the news a lot for reasons you'd expect), but conveniently never have anything to say about the exchanges with a good track record that people actually use and trust.
        aurareturn 3y ago
        Of course FTX was doing shady stuff. Every crypto exchange does it. You can find examples of crypto exchanges doing shady stuff everywhere. But no one figured out that FTX was 100% scam, moved billions from their customers, commingled funds with Alameda until after the collapse. This is despite being on the blockchain. My point is that the transparency of blockchains does not matter for crypto exchanges. They have a million ways to scam their customers without being noticed on chain.
        EscapeFromNY 3y ago
        Yes, that's where the saying "not your keys, not your coin" comes from. But that's another deep rabbit hole. Since this thread is about Google (don't forget), what's the equivalent of "not your keys" for Google ads? That's why it's an apt comparison, and the subject of the EU's complaint.
t0mas88 3y ago
Google the company is less shady than most crypto companies, but Google's market place for ads is a lot more shady than crypto exchanges. Not only is Google on each side of the trade, there is also zero transparency to other participants and it has been proven in this lawsuit that Google is using back doors in their exchange to give their own tools (DoubleClick / Google DV360) access to data that other market participants don't have. Frankly, their ad marketplace is a lot worse than even the shadiest crypto marketplaces.
EscapeFromNY 3y ago
If you don't want to send your money to the Bahamas, you have the choice as a consumer to use a regulated US-based exchange instead. You don't have to be ultra-savvy to read wikipedia and learn about a company before doing business with them. With Google, you're spending money in a completely opaque marketplace with 0 visibility or transparency, and no choice as a consumer to mitigate that.
- resolutebat 3y ago
  A regulated US-based exchange like, say, FTX US or Binance US?
  - EscapeFromNY 3y ago
    If you do a minimal amount of research (reading wikipedia), you'll learn that neither FTX nor Binance are US-based
    - resolutebat 3y ago
      Both operate(d) notionally firewalled US-based exchanges to serve US customers. For FTX we already know this was a pure sham and they lost basically all the FTX.US money as well, and the SEC has alleged that Binance is doing exactly the same.
      - EscapeFromNY 3y ago
        So your point is after you read wikipedia, it's possible to ignore the information you learned there and find some other rationalisation to send your money away? Yes, that is possible, you got me.
pwdisswordfishc 3y ago
Yeah, Google is worse
unicornmama 3y ago
Don’t forget Switzerland. Home of many “non-profit” crypto companies that have made their founders and investors very rich.

throwawaypx 3y ago

Google shares private data with NSA secretly and crypto does it publicly that's the diff i could think of

vasachi 3y ago

Well, yeah. At least I can read the smart contract and audit transactions on the blockchain, if we are talking about decentralized exchanges. Google is faaaaaaaaaar less transparent. As in, not transparent at all.

aurareturn 3y ago
Yes, being able to read smart contracts and audit transactions on the blockchain is how everyone knew FTX stealing customer funds from years ago. Oh wait. There are a huge number of ways crypto exchanges pull of scams without anyone noticing including straight up transferring customer funds to their own accounts, wash trading, trading against their own customers, having timely "maintenance" that lead to automatic liquidations, listing securities, taking bribes to list and promote a shitcoin, and the list goes on and on. FTX drained $8 billion of customer funds over its lifetime without anyone noticing on chain until its sudden collapse.
- EscapeFromNY 3y ago
  > Yes, being able to read smart contracts and audit transactions on the blockchain is how everyone knew FTX stealing customer funds from years ago. Yes in fact! Anyone who looked into it knew. Maybe Wall Street and VCs were duped, but the crypto industry itself saw the train wreck coming from a mile away and distanced themselves from the start. That's why when the inevitable happened, the mainstream were pumping out articles about FTX disproportionately to its importance -- they were the ones that got played. https://bitcoinmagazine.com/business/the-collapse-of-ftx-was-inevitable https://bitcoinmagazine.com/business/the-collapse-of-ftx-was... https://twitter.com/BitcoinIsSaving/status/1539605346469253120 https://twitter.com/BitcoinIsSaving/status/15396053464692531... > There are a huge number of ways crypto exchanges pull of scams There are a huge number of ways Google pulls off scams too. That's what this entire thread is about and the reason for the European Commission's complaint. Hence the comparison.
  - aurareturn 3y ago
    That's a load of revisionist history. FTX's schemes were only exposed AFTER they couldn't handle withdrawals. Anyone who follows crypto closely knows that every crypto exchange is crooked. Even crypto bros will tell you that. I can say that Binance is shady and likely stealing from their customers and I'll more likely to be correct than not. Saying FTX was shady before they were exposed was not a bold statement.
    - EscapeFromNY 3y ago
      Not revisionist, you can literally just search reddit for posts from before the collapse to confirm. https://old.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/cj5ovr/ftx_leveraged_tokens_will_scam_you/ https://old.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/cj5ovr/ftx_... (2019) https://old.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/m6b53a/sbf_alameda_group_are_a_big_scam_entity_beware_of/ https://old.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/m6b53a/sbf_... (2021) You're right about Binance, but the same wouldn't be true about Fidelity, Coinbase, Kraken, etc. People with an axe to grind about crypto like to pretend the industry is homogeneous and always complain about the likes of FTX and Binance (who are in the news a lot for reasons you'd expect), but conveniently never have anything to say about the exchanges with a good track record that people actually use and trust.
      - aurareturn 3y ago
        Of course FTX was doing shady stuff. Every crypto exchange does it. You can find examples of crypto exchanges doing shady stuff everywhere. But no one figured out that FTX was 100% scam, moved billions from their customers, commingled funds with Alameda until after the collapse. This is despite being on the blockchain. My point is that the transparency of blockchains does not matter for crypto exchanges. They have a million ways to scam their customers without being noticed on chain.
        EscapeFromNY 3y ago
        Yes, that's where the saying "not your keys, not your coin" comes from. But that's another deep rabbit hole. Since this thread is about Google (don't forget), what's the equivalent of "not your keys" for Google ads? That's why it's an apt comparison, and the subject of the EU's complaint.

t0mas88 3y ago

Google the company is less shady than most crypto companies, but Google's market place for ads is a lot more shady than crypto exchanges. Not only is Google on each side of the trade, there is also zero transparency to other participants and it has been proven in this lawsuit that Google is using back doors in their exchange to give their own tools (DoubleClick / Google DV360) access to data that other market participants don't have. Frankly, their ad marketplace is a lot worse than even the shadiest crypto marketplaces.

EscapeFromNY 3y ago

If you don't want to send your money to the Bahamas, you have the choice as a consumer to use a regulated US-based exchange instead. You don't have to be ultra-savvy to read wikipedia and learn about a company before doing business with them. With Google, you're spending money in a completely opaque marketplace with 0 visibility or transparency, and no choice as a consumer to mitigate that.

resolutebat 3y ago
A regulated US-based exchange like, say, FTX US or Binance US?
- EscapeFromNY 3y ago
  If you do a minimal amount of research (reading wikipedia), you'll learn that neither FTX nor Binance are US-based
  - resolutebat 3y ago
    Both operate(d) notionally firewalled US-based exchanges to serve US customers. For FTX we already know this was a pure sham and they lost basically all the FTX.US money as well, and the SEC has alleged that Binance is doing exactly the same.
    - EscapeFromNY 3y ago
      So your point is after you read wikipedia, it's possible to ignore the information you learned there and find some other rationalisation to send your money away? Yes, that is possible, you got me.

pwdisswordfishc 3y ago

Yeah, Google is worse

unicornmama 3y ago

Don’t forget Switzerland. Home of many “non-profit” crypto companies that have made their founders and investors very rich.