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This is value: https://i.imgur.com/QGEwbPI.png https://i.imgur.com/QGEwbPI.png I don't think I will read anything else this insightful today. Would I pay for t

by mnsc 3y ago

This is value: https://i.imgur.com/QGEwbPI.png https://i.imgur.com/QGEwbPI.png I don't think I will read anything else this insightful today. Would I pay for this thread? Absolutely. Would I pay $19.99/month for HNPREMIUM where I could read "the full thread" of top content providers like mjburgess? Nope.

saaaaaam 3y ago
I can’t exactly pinpoint what it is about this but I can’t help feeling that there’s a certain irony in you taking a screenshot of a perfectly readable, accessible post on here and posting that as (to my mind) a less readable less accessible, decontextualised piece of content - an image on an image sharing site. Is it because people will genuinely engage with that content there? Is it a “this is such good content I’ve captured it for posterity - look here’s the proof!” type of endorsement? Or is it an attempt to archive the content into some sort of collective memory? Or an aide memoire for your own purposes? Genuinely curious to understand your motivation, it’s not a criticism of what you’ve done, just something I feel I don’t understand.
- AndrewKemendo 3y ago
  I can only guess that they simply wanted a pointer to a contained set of data with bounded reference So that was easier or more impactful to communicate via image than typing “this thread is valuable” At least that’s how it made sense to me
  - mnsc 3y ago
    You're right and sorry, It was just a online way of me enthusiastically pointing at a thing and trying to say: This is value, just a snippet of text on a pale yellow background, where no-one were actively trying to create this value. I can't really put my finger on what I'm trying to say though so i guess that is the root the confusion. :D Like, I don't get paid for this content so it doesn't have to make sense. edit: also I use greenshot so it's too easy for me to screenshot and get an imgur-link. And yes, I'm a screenshoter, sending my colleagues images of text all the time. I'm lucky to be alive still. edit2: example, slack dm from 1 hour ago https://i.imgur.com/807OQML.png https://i.imgur.com/807OQML.png
    - AndrewKemendo 3y ago
      Please don’t apologize, your approach is pretty normal - I probably send a dozen screenshots around per day and it’s always easiest to just show people what I’m referring to directly with an image.
      - jrochkind1 3y ago
        Hacker News has pretty easily accessible URLs for every comment. Just click on the timestamp next to the comment, like "12 hours ago". Sending the actual HN url to a comment or thread, instead of a screenshot: * Is accessible to people with limited vision who can't or can't as easily read a screeshot. Many people even without vision impairment find text much easier to consume than a photo of text. For instance, text in reasonable CSS will flow to fit your screensize, where a screenshot will not. * For those interested, easily provides the context of where the comment/thread appeared and what's around it, hard to trace back from a screenshot to HN * For the future archival purposes, is often more likely to still be good than a link to a third-party image hosting site * In the rare case where it matters, is "self-authenticating", it points to HN itself, while an image can be modified or faked, although certainly in most cases there is no motivation for someone to do so, still it's nice to have it built in. When it's an HN comment, or anything else with a URL, I think it should be nearly as easy to show people what you're refering to with a URL to it, as it is with a screenshot?
- anotherhue 3y ago
  "Ceci n'est pas un fil de discussion"
mjburgess 3y ago
Well I can comment with authority on my motivations. I can expand your point further than you made it. I am posting here because its free for you. I'm posting here to participate in an open forum, I am donating my time to the people here, in conversation -- not to HackerNews itself. Which has my loyalty only insofar as it is the "public space I want to visit". So if you were to have paid anything for that thread, I wouldnt have started it. And likewise I have never posted to any internet forum behind a paywall and I find the idea practically and morally suspicious. All the places worth going to are run by those with a passion for them -- it is that passion which they want to share.
- mnsc 3y ago
  Thanks for expanding. I think for me I get confused with getting a lot of value out of something that's free, user friendly and highly moderated (self moderated and actively) and wanting to show that I value that. Naively it would be that thing "money" in some way or another. But the gotcha is, it's lots of these little threads where a writer is going out of their way to shed insight on something and it clicks for me (aka great value). So I would have kinda liked to give post facto user driven "tips", but then imho micro transactions perverts incentives on a micro individual level. So you might still say all these things you said now (without any chance of getting "a coffe" or a couple of "bits") but you could also start to change your tone to make it stand out more, to provide "better content", so you spice up your takes and act more distinguishable to get tips. Or as in your case, stop posting all together. So I don't want micro transactions here even if I sometimes actuall would like to pay someone thanks somehow.
  - mjburgess 3y ago
    I get value out of clarifying my thoughts amongst people capable of refining them -- the membership fee is "something to say" and the reward is "something to read". I'm quite capitalist myself, but for my own passions, an elite socialist -- that is, of course the value to me ought be non-financial; and likewise, to you. A kind of "collective elite" is very intuitive for one's owns passions --- but it wont get you an economy. But I dont wish to turn my thoughts into an economy. My words pay their own way.

by mnsc 3y ago

saaaaaam 3y ago

I can’t exactly pinpoint what it is about this but I can’t help feeling that there’s a certain irony in you taking a screenshot of a perfectly readable, accessible post on here and posting that as (to my mind) a less readable less accessible, decontextualised piece of content - an image on an image sharing site. Is it because people will genuinely engage with that content there? Is it a “this is such good content I’ve captured it for posterity - look here’s the proof!” type of endorsement? Or is it an attempt to archive the content into some sort of collective memory? Or an aide memoire for your own purposes? Genuinely curious to understand your motivation, it’s not a criticism of what you’ve done, just something I feel I don’t understand.

AndrewKemendo 3y ago
I can only guess that they simply wanted a pointer to a contained set of data with bounded reference So that was easier or more impactful to communicate via image than typing “this thread is valuable” At least that’s how it made sense to me
- mnsc 3y ago
  You're right and sorry, It was just a online way of me enthusiastically pointing at a thing and trying to say: This is value, just a snippet of text on a pale yellow background, where no-one were actively trying to create this value. I can't really put my finger on what I'm trying to say though so i guess that is the root the confusion. :D Like, I don't get paid for this content so it doesn't have to make sense. edit: also I use greenshot so it's too easy for me to screenshot and get an imgur-link. And yes, I'm a screenshoter, sending my colleagues images of text all the time. I'm lucky to be alive still. edit2: example, slack dm from 1 hour ago https://i.imgur.com/807OQML.png https://i.imgur.com/807OQML.png
  - AndrewKemendo 3y ago
    Please don’t apologize, your approach is pretty normal - I probably send a dozen screenshots around per day and it’s always easiest to just show people what I’m referring to directly with an image.
    - jrochkind1 3y ago
      Hacker News has pretty easily accessible URLs for every comment. Just click on the timestamp next to the comment, like "12 hours ago". Sending the actual HN url to a comment or thread, instead of a screenshot: * Is accessible to people with limited vision who can't or can't as easily read a screeshot. Many people even without vision impairment find text much easier to consume than a photo of text. For instance, text in reasonable CSS will flow to fit your screensize, where a screenshot will not. * For those interested, easily provides the context of where the comment/thread appeared and what's around it, hard to trace back from a screenshot to HN * For the future archival purposes, is often more likely to still be good than a link to a third-party image hosting site * In the rare case where it matters, is "self-authenticating", it points to HN itself, while an image can be modified or faked, although certainly in most cases there is no motivation for someone to do so, still it's nice to have it built in. When it's an HN comment, or anything else with a URL, I think it should be nearly as easy to show people what you're refering to with a URL to it, as it is with a screenshot?
anotherhue 3y ago
"Ceci n'est pas un fil de discussion"

mjburgess 3y ago

Well I can comment with authority on my motivations. I can expand your point further than you made it. I am posting here because its free for you. I'm posting here to participate in an open forum, I am donating my time to the people here, in conversation -- not to HackerNews itself. Which has my loyalty only insofar as it is the "public space I want to visit". So if you were to have paid anything for that thread, I wouldnt have started it. And likewise I have never posted to any internet forum behind a paywall and I find the idea practically and morally suspicious. All the places worth going to are run by those with a passion for them -- it is that passion which they want to share.

mnsc 3y ago
Thanks for expanding. I think for me I get confused with getting a lot of value out of something that's free, user friendly and highly moderated (self moderated and actively) and wanting to show that I value that. Naively it would be that thing "money" in some way or another. But the gotcha is, it's lots of these little threads where a writer is going out of their way to shed insight on something and it clicks for me (aka great value). So I would have kinda liked to give post facto user driven "tips", but then imho micro transactions perverts incentives on a micro individual level. So you might still say all these things you said now (without any chance of getting "a coffe" or a couple of "bits") but you could also start to change your tone to make it stand out more, to provide "better content", so you spice up your takes and act more distinguishable to get tips. Or as in your case, stop posting all together. So I don't want micro transactions here even if I sometimes actuall would like to pay someone thanks somehow.
- mjburgess 3y ago
  I get value out of clarifying my thoughts amongst people capable of refining them -- the membership fee is "something to say" and the reward is "something to read". I'm quite capitalist myself, but for my own passions, an elite socialist -- that is, of course the value to me ought be non-financial; and likewise, to you. A kind of "collective elite" is very intuitive for one's owns passions --- but it wont get you an economy. But I dont wish to turn my thoughts into an economy. My words pay their own way.