9 ms·

> It’s impressive how their CEO keeps shooting himself in the foot on this one You don't negotiate with blackmailers, because this is what this is now, blackma

> It’s impressive how their CEO keeps shooting himself in the foot on this one You don't negotiate with blackmailers, because this is what this is now, blackmail. If things continue like this I give it 5 to 7 days until reddit the company forcefully removes these mods.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
dehrmann 3y ago
They don't have the resources to take on that much moderation at scale. Maybe given two years and a big tech budget or six months and a big moderator budget.
hrrsn 3y ago
Remove the mods, and replace them with who, exactly? They've pissed off everyone that was offering free labour.
onion2k 3y ago
I give it 5 to 7 days until reddit the company forcefully removes these mods The impact of this would be to make lots of subreddit unmoderated, leading to a huge amount of spam, adult content in sfw subreddit, cross-posting, etc. The impact would be to let everyone know just how much free work the mods do to keep Reddit tidy and valuable. I don't think you're wrong (except maybe on the timescale) but I do think the strategy would shoot the CEO in the foot again.
- worthless-trash 3y ago
  I say that if they -DO- remove the moderators, we should go back and be human spambots.
  - onion2k 3y ago
    we should go back and be human spambots Judging by my HN history I don't think I ever stopped.
- yanderekko 3y ago
  Reddit has replaced mods before, they'll do it again. If they can't do it for hundreds of subs at once, that's fine - they'll start with the largest ones and go from there. Once it becomes clear that top mods will be removed if the subs don't reopen, the protest will largely crumble, if it doesn't do so before this becomes necessary.
  - foodjinn 3y ago
    The power mods that are pushing the blackout run something like 80% of the entire site. I honestly don't see how they allowed this to happen in the first place.
    - seydor 3y ago
      It will be a good thing that they are removed then. Hardly irreplaceable
    - yanderekko 3y ago
      The ones that are going to push for long-term blackouts don't control 80% of the site. Whatever share they do control will probably be redistributed to other powermods pretty quickly, I would guess.
paulmd 3y ago
Yeah it’s now “oh and maybe we’ll do ‘touch grass tuesdays’ in perpetuity”. That’s an incredibly unsympathetic message imo. Get real. If anyone thinks a business is going to tolerate a clique of powermods choosing to randomly shut things down according to their own schedule… they’re gonna be disappointed. Let alone I’ve seen some people thinking they can demand a hand in the corporate governance? Yeah fuck no powermods are not ever getting a seat on the board, lol, lmao. No company in the world would ever agree to that. Especially not after all of this. Yeah, they’re gonna pry the mods off and reopen things, sooner or later. Unless something changes mods are going to leave things permanently closed after the 30th and walk away, and Reddit is absolutely not going to tolerate that. But there’s no reason to wait that long really. The 5 mods running an average of 18 top-100 subs each are not going to be as tough to replace as people think they are, the reality is at that scale you’re not managing anything operationally on a day to day level, you’re setting up a script. It’s the lower-level jannies that will be the trouble, because they’re the ones doing the actual work, not the person claiming to mod 200 million subscribers worth of content. And at the end of the day you can find some people willing to click “delete” on spam while they’re scrolling. That’s plausible if they can get over the bump gracefully. And truth is there’s always people willing to do it for the prestige, even as pitiful as that is. The Reddit play here is obviously to pry the powermods off, get the frontpage subs back open, and get moderation back to some kind of a semi functional level (automated or otherwise) until it blows over and organic moderation can resume. And that’s a reasonably achievable goal. But the powermod squad needs to consider what their own exit strategy is too… nobody is going to let powermods randomly shut things down on an ongoing basis. If they’re disruptive then they put Reddit in a position of being forced to remove them, it is what it is, Reddit can’t operate with a cabal of a half dozen users able to shut down the front page at will either. If Reddit doesn’t have a fundamental belief in the powermods being good-faith players they are gone regardless of the consequences, because the alternative is unacceptable. They will deal with the consequences and move forward, most likely successfully. People act like Spez is somehow out of line and they can just get him tossed out, like the board is going to sign off on letting a bunch of agitators disrupt operations on an ongoing and indefinite basis.
- yanderekko 3y ago
  Importantly, the powerjannies aren't a monolithic bloc, and many of them are already vocally critical of the notion of an ongoing blackout. I'd expect that they know that if some of them get removed then other powermods will eagerly move in to claim their territories. There's not going to be some sort of class solidarity here - continuing the protests will be tantamount to resigning as a mod, you're just being dramatic about it.
wiseowise 3y ago
> You don't negotiate with blackmailers, because this is what this is now, blackmail. You don’t negotiate with exporters either, yet here we are.
rchaud 3y ago
Maybe in movies you don't. In reality, prisoner swaps and ransom payments happen every single day.
dogleash 3y ago
> because this is what this is now, blackmail I think you meant to say extortion, not blackmail. But it isn't that either.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

dehrmann 3y ago

They don't have the resources to take on that much moderation at scale. Maybe given two years and a big tech budget or six months and a big moderator budget.

hrrsn 3y ago

Remove the mods, and replace them with who, exactly? They've pissed off everyone that was offering free labour.

onion2k 3y ago

I give it 5 to 7 days until reddit the company forcefully removes these mods The impact of this would be to make lots of subreddit unmoderated, leading to a huge amount of spam, adult content in sfw subreddit, cross-posting, etc. The impact would be to let everyone know just how much free work the mods do to keep Reddit tidy and valuable. I don't think you're wrong (except maybe on the timescale) but I do think the strategy would shoot the CEO in the foot again.

worthless-trash 3y ago
I say that if they -DO- remove the moderators, we should go back and be human spambots.
- onion2k 3y ago
  we should go back and be human spambots Judging by my HN history I don't think I ever stopped.
yanderekko 3y ago
Reddit has replaced mods before, they'll do it again. If they can't do it for hundreds of subs at once, that's fine - they'll start with the largest ones and go from there. Once it becomes clear that top mods will be removed if the subs don't reopen, the protest will largely crumble, if it doesn't do so before this becomes necessary.
- foodjinn 3y ago
  The power mods that are pushing the blackout run something like 80% of the entire site. I honestly don't see how they allowed this to happen in the first place.
  - seydor 3y ago
    It will be a good thing that they are removed then. Hardly irreplaceable
  - yanderekko 3y ago
    The ones that are going to push for long-term blackouts don't control 80% of the site. Whatever share they do control will probably be redistributed to other powermods pretty quickly, I would guess.

paulmd 3y ago

Yeah it’s now “oh and maybe we’ll do ‘touch grass tuesdays’ in perpetuity”. That’s an incredibly unsympathetic message imo. Get real. If anyone thinks a business is going to tolerate a clique of powermods choosing to randomly shut things down according to their own schedule… they’re gonna be disappointed. Let alone I’ve seen some people thinking they can demand a hand in the corporate governance? Yeah fuck no powermods are not ever getting a seat on the board, lol, lmao. No company in the world would ever agree to that. Especially not after all of this. Yeah, they’re gonna pry the mods off and reopen things, sooner or later. Unless something changes mods are going to leave things permanently closed after the 30th and walk away, and Reddit is absolutely not going to tolerate that. But there’s no reason to wait that long really. The 5 mods running an average of 18 top-100 subs each are not going to be as tough to replace as people think they are, the reality is at that scale you’re not managing anything operationally on a day to day level, you’re setting up a script. It’s the lower-level jannies that will be the trouble, because they’re the ones doing the actual work, not the person claiming to mod 200 million subscribers worth of content. And at the end of the day you can find some people willing to click “delete” on spam while they’re scrolling. That’s plausible if they can get over the bump gracefully. And truth is there’s always people willing to do it for the prestige, even as pitiful as that is. The Reddit play here is obviously to pry the powermods off, get the frontpage subs back open, and get moderation back to some kind of a semi functional level (automated or otherwise) until it blows over and organic moderation can resume. And that’s a reasonably achievable goal. But the powermod squad needs to consider what their own exit strategy is too… nobody is going to let powermods randomly shut things down on an ongoing basis. If they’re disruptive then they put Reddit in a position of being forced to remove them, it is what it is, Reddit can’t operate with a cabal of a half dozen users able to shut down the front page at will either. If Reddit doesn’t have a fundamental belief in the powermods being good-faith players they are gone regardless of the consequences, because the alternative is unacceptable. They will deal with the consequences and move forward, most likely successfully. People act like Spez is somehow out of line and they can just get him tossed out, like the board is going to sign off on letting a bunch of agitators disrupt operations on an ongoing and indefinite basis.

yanderekko 3y ago
Importantly, the powerjannies aren't a monolithic bloc, and many of them are already vocally critical of the notion of an ongoing blackout. I'd expect that they know that if some of them get removed then other powermods will eagerly move in to claim their territories. There's not going to be some sort of class solidarity here - continuing the protests will be tantamount to resigning as a mod, you're just being dramatic about it.

wiseowise 3y ago

> You don't negotiate with blackmailers, because this is what this is now, blackmail. You don’t negotiate with exporters either, yet here we are.

rchaud 3y ago

Maybe in movies you don't. In reality, prisoner swaps and ransom payments happen every single day.

dogleash 3y ago

> because this is what this is now, blackmail I think you meant to say extortion, not blackmail. But it isn't that either.