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If the CEO backs down then he’s weak. He needs to publish a hard hitting memo that chastises third party app developers for not creating more sustainable busin

by xwdv 3y ago

If the CEO backs down then he’s weak. He needs to publish a hard hitting memo that chastises third party app developers for not creating more sustainable businesses. If Reddit cannot meet it’s revenue goals it will shut down, period.

larksimian 3y ago
Bollocks. Tumblr is still around and probably has been losing money for longer than people here have been alive. No one is throwing away the kind of audience reddit has. Now the CEO might lose his job, but let's not get that twisted up with Reddit's survival.
- gary_0 3y ago
  Tumblr went from selling for $1B in 2013 to $3M in 2019. The brand persists but as a business it's a dismal failure. If Reddit follows that arc it will be a dismal failure as well.
  - tut-urut-utut 3y ago
    Why should we care if it’s financial failure for its owners as long as it brings the same value to its users?
    - tirpen 3y ago
      If it's too much of a financial failure, it will shut down and provide zero value to its users.
    - midoridensha 3y ago
      Tumblr doesn't bring the same value to its users as it did before; it's basically forgotten these days, much like MySpace.
      - easyThrowaway 3y ago
        Ironically enough, tumblr is going trough some sort of "indie/lo-fi" renaissance now that Automattic bought them. I don't think they even want to go back to being an alternative to FB/Instagram/Twitter.
- NovaDudely 3y ago
  Brian Lunduke back in 2019 when Reddit took $150 million from Tencent basically said that Reddit would be a company in trouble with in 5 years. His argument was that it shouldn't cost that much to run the place and as such they would have to start pleasing investors and not users. The argument was that you can buy an obscene amount of storage and bandwidth for only a fraction of the money they were raising. It is even more true today. Look at the amount of storage and bandwidth archive.org uses and how little money they bring in. This is not a money issue in terms of running the site.
  - javier2 3y ago
    Yeah, they would probably do very well with news agency revenues, but the investors want Google/Facebook revenues.
  - larksimian 3y ago
    If they charged like $2/year/user for 3d party API access they'd be profitable and no one would be that outraged. Their expenses are still absurd given that, from my perspective they've literally done no improvement to the product in the last 5 years or more. Just maintain the API, have some staff to run the servers, pay a few admins to support the mods and feature freeze Reddit the site as much as possible. It's way crazier that Reddit has 2k employees than that Twitter had 4k or whatever. Edited from $2/month/user to $2/year/user.
    - itronitron 3y ago
      >> If they charged like $2/month/user for 3d party API access they'd be profitable But then the leadership would only be wealthy and not famous. It feels like the focus on ad sales by so many platforms is due to their executives' personal preference in having broad ranging social influence (by playing gateway to the masses) instead of a predictable revenue stream.
      - DirkH 3y ago
        This is interesting, but can you further explain how yoy get broad ranging social influence from focusing on ads? I don't quite get that.
greatpatton 3y ago
Main question is why is Reddit a 2000 employees company?
- progbits 3y ago
  It would make sense if 1800 of those were paid moderators.
- TulliusCicero 3y ago
  Normally I'm defending tech company size, but in this case it does seem bizarre, given how bad their official apps are, and the mobile site, and the new reddit desktop site. Those are the primary user interfaces for their platform, and they're bad. Enthusiast users in particular seem to overwhelmingly prefer third party apps and old reddit, and those third party apps seem to be made by small teams or even solo devs.
  - 13of40 3y ago
    The strange irony there is they seem to be making the mobile site worse over time to drive people to the app, and if that's intentional they must be paying some developer to do it and some manager to tell them the game plan. Imagine being in one of those roles.
    - Sophira 3y ago
      Given that they recently A/B tested an experiment which would just lock you out of the mobile website when logged in and force you to use the app instead[0], it's difficult to see it as anything but intentional. [0] https://reddit.com/comments/135tly1/comment/jim40zg https://reddit.com/comments/135tly1/comment/jim40zg
- rchaud 3y ago
  Reddit acquired 3 companies in 2022, although they might all be pretty small operations: https://www.crunchbase.com/search/acquisitions/field/organizations/num_acquisitions/reddit https://www.crunchbase.com/search/acquisitions/field/organiz...
baconmania 3y ago
Assuming you're serious, I'm curious why you think Reddit's CEO shouldn't be chastised under that same category. Selling ads next to user-generated content, rent seeking with demands of extortionate API fees to serve that content, relying on unpaid volunteers to operate the site, proudly shipping terrible first-party UX, all while providing zero additional value sure doesn’t sound like a sustainable business. But maybe it’s the `hard hitting memo` obstinacy of a CEO that seems the biggest feature here?
- xwdv 3y ago
  1) Every social network sells ads 2) Building and maintaining an API is as rent seeking as building any kind of subscription service, I don’t see the issue. 3) Why would you pay a volunteer? They’re volunteering. In exchange they wield incredible power over the community, which is the real reason they volunteer. 4) The UX sucks, but there’s still old.reddit.com, so you have options. 5) What additional value can be provided? It’s a giant forum and people post comments, there’s not much more you need, that is the value. Third party apps can just raise their fees and users will pay a couple more dollars. But it’s not about money, it’s about power. Reddit users are very entitled and care more about optics. They don’t want to surrender a fist full of dollars for a website they use everyday and probably are addicted to.
  - FeetYeet 3y ago
    1) Every social network sells ads Yes, but all other social networks are GOOD at it and make a fuck ton of money. That’s the issue. Reddit has had plenty of chances to turn profitable, but they can’t seem to figure it out. Now they’ve run down the checklist and apparently “kill 3rd party apps” is their newest brilliant idea to make money.
    - mitchell209 3y ago
      Wasn’t Twitter the most popular social media site on the planet and still losing money?
      - 3y ago

by xwdv 3y ago

larksimian 3y ago

Bollocks. Tumblr is still around and probably has been losing money for longer than people here have been alive. No one is throwing away the kind of audience reddit has. Now the CEO might lose his job, but let's not get that twisted up with Reddit's survival.

gary_0 3y ago
Tumblr went from selling for $1B in 2013 to $3M in 2019. The brand persists but as a business it's a dismal failure. If Reddit follows that arc it will be a dismal failure as well.
- tut-urut-utut 3y ago
  Why should we care if it’s financial failure for its owners as long as it brings the same value to its users?
  - tirpen 3y ago
    If it's too much of a financial failure, it will shut down and provide zero value to its users.
  - midoridensha 3y ago
    Tumblr doesn't bring the same value to its users as it did before; it's basically forgotten these days, much like MySpace.
    - easyThrowaway 3y ago
      Ironically enough, tumblr is going trough some sort of "indie/lo-fi" renaissance now that Automattic bought them. I don't think they even want to go back to being an alternative to FB/Instagram/Twitter.
NovaDudely 3y ago
Brian Lunduke back in 2019 when Reddit took $150 million from Tencent basically said that Reddit would be a company in trouble with in 5 years. His argument was that it shouldn't cost that much to run the place and as such they would have to start pleasing investors and not users. The argument was that you can buy an obscene amount of storage and bandwidth for only a fraction of the money they were raising. It is even more true today. Look at the amount of storage and bandwidth archive.org uses and how little money they bring in. This is not a money issue in terms of running the site.
- javier2 3y ago
  Yeah, they would probably do very well with news agency revenues, but the investors want Google/Facebook revenues.
- larksimian 3y ago
  If they charged like $2/year/user for 3d party API access they'd be profitable and no one would be that outraged. Their expenses are still absurd given that, from my perspective they've literally done no improvement to the product in the last 5 years or more. Just maintain the API, have some staff to run the servers, pay a few admins to support the mods and feature freeze Reddit the site as much as possible. It's way crazier that Reddit has 2k employees than that Twitter had 4k or whatever. Edited from $2/month/user to $2/year/user.
  - itronitron 3y ago
    >> If they charged like $2/month/user for 3d party API access they'd be profitable But then the leadership would only be wealthy and not famous. It feels like the focus on ad sales by so many platforms is due to their executives' personal preference in having broad ranging social influence (by playing gateway to the masses) instead of a predictable revenue stream.
    - DirkH 3y ago
      This is interesting, but can you further explain how yoy get broad ranging social influence from focusing on ads? I don't quite get that.

greatpatton 3y ago

Main question is why is Reddit a 2000 employees company?

progbits 3y ago
It would make sense if 1800 of those were paid moderators.
TulliusCicero 3y ago
Normally I'm defending tech company size, but in this case it does seem bizarre, given how bad their official apps are, and the mobile site, and the new reddit desktop site. Those are the primary user interfaces for their platform, and they're bad. Enthusiast users in particular seem to overwhelmingly prefer third party apps and old reddit, and those third party apps seem to be made by small teams or even solo devs.
- 13of40 3y ago
  The strange irony there is they seem to be making the mobile site worse over time to drive people to the app, and if that's intentional they must be paying some developer to do it and some manager to tell them the game plan. Imagine being in one of those roles.
  - Sophira 3y ago
    Given that they recently A/B tested an experiment which would just lock you out of the mobile website when logged in and force you to use the app instead[0], it's difficult to see it as anything but intentional. [0] https://reddit.com/comments/135tly1/comment/jim40zg https://reddit.com/comments/135tly1/comment/jim40zg
rchaud 3y ago
Reddit acquired 3 companies in 2022, although they might all be pretty small operations: https://www.crunchbase.com/search/acquisitions/field/organizations/num_acquisitions/reddit https://www.crunchbase.com/search/acquisitions/field/organiz...

baconmania 3y ago

Assuming you're serious, I'm curious why you think Reddit's CEO shouldn't be chastised under that same category. Selling ads next to user-generated content, rent seeking with demands of extortionate API fees to serve that content, relying on unpaid volunteers to operate the site, proudly shipping terrible first-party UX, all while providing zero additional value sure doesn’t sound like a sustainable business. But maybe it’s the `hard hitting memo` obstinacy of a CEO that seems the biggest feature here?

xwdv 3y ago
1) Every social network sells ads 2) Building and maintaining an API is as rent seeking as building any kind of subscription service, I don’t see the issue. 3) Why would you pay a volunteer? They’re volunteering. In exchange they wield incredible power over the community, which is the real reason they volunteer. 4) The UX sucks, but there’s still old.reddit.com, so you have options. 5) What additional value can be provided? It’s a giant forum and people post comments, there’s not much more you need, that is the value. Third party apps can just raise their fees and users will pay a couple more dollars. But it’s not about money, it’s about power. Reddit users are very entitled and care more about optics. They don’t want to surrender a fist full of dollars for a website they use everyday and probably are addicted to.
- FeetYeet 3y ago
  1) Every social network sells ads Yes, but all other social networks are GOOD at it and make a fuck ton of money. That’s the issue. Reddit has had plenty of chances to turn profitable, but they can’t seem to figure it out. Now they’ve run down the checklist and apparently “kill 3rd party apps” is their newest brilliant idea to make money.
  - mitchell209 3y ago
    Wasn’t Twitter the most popular social media site on the planet and still losing money?
    - 3y ago