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Could the 3rd-party apps allow users to config API keys? That would distribute the cost.

by est 3y ago

Terr_ 3y ago
That seems like a non-starter: The average person who wants a better smartphone experience is not going to jump through the hoops of registering their "own app" (which would be a lie) and then transcribing IDs/secrets into their phone.
- menage 3y ago
  Reddit could offer a premium membership that allows add-free and API access, and require the third-party apps to log in on behalf of the user. The fee might still turn a lot of people off (although the lack of ads would make it so much nicer), but it at least wouldn't be a technical hurdle. That model seems to work for YouTube.
  - alpaca128 3y ago
    Or they could just continue having their current premium model that doesn't involve the third-party apps they so despise. Reddit premium is a thing already, too bad both the official app and website sucks.
abhibeckert 3y ago
The cost is something like $500 per user per year. People just aren't going to pay that much.
- Semaphor 3y ago
  100/minute are free. So roughly $0 per year which most would probably pay. But getting an API key, and the TOS are issues.
- frankacter 3y ago
  This is not accurate. From the data presented, in aggregate, >90% fall well within the free tier of usage (100 API calls per minute for OAuth logged in client). The majority of the remaining fall into a $1/month tier [1]. Certainly there are some outliers that exceed those ranges and unfortunately the majority of the spotlight seems to be on the smallest of the populace. It is also worth noting that app developers can (and should) better optimize their apps to reduce calls to API (bundling, caching, etc) which will help to reduce the number of calls required overall to take that cost down. Many apps do this already. [1]https://www.reddit.com/r/reddit/comments/145bram/addressing_the_community_about_changes_to_our_api/ https://www.reddit.com/r/reddit/comments/145bram/addressing_...
  - aniforprez 3y ago
    Why would you take the word of reddit management on this issue? That seems like the least trustworthy source here
    - frankacter 3y ago
      Because they have gone on public record with those numbers and as of yet, no one has refuted them. Do you have an alternate source of user level data that breaks down average vs. outliers and that ratio that you feel is more accurate? The free tier is 100 queries per minute for an OAuth logged in client per the public statement, and that number has also been stated by a few 3rd party app developers. That is a lot for the average user, especially for a well optimized app.
      - rcxdude 3y ago
        The main issue here is that the number isn't relevant: it's per API key, not per user. So unless reddit starts handing out API keys to every user then it doesn't make the slightest difference to third party apps.
        frankacter 3y ago
        It is relevant. Developers have the ability to throttle and/or monetize users based on usage to pass on those costs to power user outliers, while not impacting the majority of their users that fall into that free tier.
- larksimian 3y ago
  I know you're not saying this, but just to point out how absurd this price point is: > Reddit generated $350 million in 2021, primarily from its advertising business > Reddit has 52 million daily active users and approximately 430 million users who use it once a month Are we really supposed to believe that Reddit is losing $500 * 400 million per year? Their total cost per user is probably something like $1/year. Twitch.tv which streams 1080p video prolly has costs of like $50/user/year. Insane pricing decision by Reddit.
Rebelgecko 3y ago
TOS violation
Timon3 3y ago
Have you tried creating an API key? In the AMA multiple developers stated that Reddit didn't react to multiple and repeated requests.

Could the 3rd-party apps allow users to config API keys? That would distribute the cost.

by est 3y ago

Could the 3rd-party apps allow users to config API keys? That would distribute the cost.

That seems like a non-starter: The average person who wants a better smartphone experience is not going to jump through the hoops of registering their "own app" (which would be a lie) and then transcribing IDs/secrets into their phone.

menage 3y ago
Reddit could offer a premium membership that allows add-free and API access, and require the third-party apps to log in on behalf of the user. The fee might still turn a lot of people off (although the lack of ads would make it so much nicer), but it at least wouldn't be a technical hurdle. That model seems to work for YouTube.
- alpaca128 3y ago
  Or they could just continue having their current premium model that doesn't involve the third-party apps they so despise. Reddit premium is a thing already, too bad both the official app and website sucks.

abhibeckert 3y ago

The cost is something like $500 per user per year. People just aren't going to pay that much.

Semaphor 3y ago
100/minute are free. So roughly $0 per year which most would probably pay. But getting an API key, and the TOS are issues.
frankacter 3y ago
This is not accurate. From the data presented, in aggregate, >90% fall well within the free tier of usage (100 API calls per minute for OAuth logged in client). The majority of the remaining fall into a $1/month tier [1]. Certainly there are some outliers that exceed those ranges and unfortunately the majority of the spotlight seems to be on the smallest of the populace. It is also worth noting that app developers can (and should) better optimize their apps to reduce calls to API (bundling, caching, etc) which will help to reduce the number of calls required overall to take that cost down. Many apps do this already. [1]https://www.reddit.com/r/reddit/comments/145bram/addressing_the_community_about_changes_to_our_api/ https://www.reddit.com/r/reddit/comments/145bram/addressing_...
- aniforprez 3y ago
  Why would you take the word of reddit management on this issue? That seems like the least trustworthy source here
  - frankacter 3y ago
    Because they have gone on public record with those numbers and as of yet, no one has refuted them. Do you have an alternate source of user level data that breaks down average vs. outliers and that ratio that you feel is more accurate? The free tier is 100 queries per minute for an OAuth logged in client per the public statement, and that number has also been stated by a few 3rd party app developers. That is a lot for the average user, especially for a well optimized app.
    - rcxdude 3y ago
      The main issue here is that the number isn't relevant: it's per API key, not per user. So unless reddit starts handing out API keys to every user then it doesn't make the slightest difference to third party apps.
      - frankacter 3y ago
        It is relevant. Developers have the ability to throttle and/or monetize users based on usage to pass on those costs to power user outliers, while not impacting the majority of their users that fall into that free tier.
larksimian 3y ago
I know you're not saying this, but just to point out how absurd this price point is: > Reddit generated $350 million in 2021, primarily from its advertising business > Reddit has 52 million daily active users and approximately 430 million users who use it once a month Are we really supposed to believe that Reddit is losing $500 * 400 million per year? Their total cost per user is probably something like $1/year. Twitch.tv which streams 1080p video prolly has costs of like $50/user/year. Insane pricing decision by Reddit.

Rebelgecko 3y ago

TOS violation

Timon3 3y ago

Have you tried creating an API key? In the AMA multiple developers stated that Reddit didn't react to multiple and repeated requests.