3 ms·

Organizing the continued blackout on Reddit is a bad look. I know it's not their aim, but it seems like "users should be prevented from using reddit, but us mod

Organizing the continued blackout on Reddit is a bad look. I know it's not their aim, but it seems like "users should be prevented from using reddit, but us mods are exempt." That said, short of preemptively having coordinated something, I don't know where else they'd organize. Particularly as I'm unaware of any real "leaders" to this movement.

opdahl 3y ago
What are you talking about? How are the mods exempt from the blackout? You think all community mods can see all the private subreddits?
- boomboomsubban 3y ago
  No, but they're continuing to use Reddit.
jazzyjackson 3y ago
Yea, definitely more of a mod revolt than a user revolt I feel like a lot of users have had it up to here with mod abuse too, maybe smaller subreddits with less automation would be preferable to mega reddits with bots that auto-ban you for being new to the community
- PartiallyTyped 3y ago
  Polls were held in many subreddits; if a subreddit is the community - which it is - then the will of the participants is the will of the community and those who communicate it.
  - hax0ron3 3y ago
    I think that such polls tend to vastly over-represent the small subsets of those communities who care enough about the issue to vote. Voting is very rare in subreddits so I imagine that probably most users of those subreddits did not even realize that the votes were happening. And knowing how authoritarian Reddit mods usually are, I doubt very much that for the most part they would not have done whatever they wanted to do even if the votes had gone against them. The voting is just a fig leaf.
    - abhibeckert 3y ago
      The only subreddit where I saw a vote, it was something like 95% of people voted for a blackout. Almost nobody is siding with reddit on this.
    - davidgerard 3y ago
      you mean, it's massively biased to the actual participants and contributors? Yeah, that's good.
    - PartiallyTyped 3y ago
      The people who care are the kind of people who make the community. The community is the content and those who post it, aka the core that ties everything everything together. Lurkers are not part of the community, they might as well not even exist.
      - goykasi 3y ago
        If lurkers don't exist, the community doesn't exist. It's well established that internet forums and communities consist of >=90% of users not contributing -- but consuming[1]. A small portion produce where as an overwhelming portion consume. To say lurkers shouldnt exist is extremely reductive and callous. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule
        PartiallyTyped 3y ago
        I am well aware that the overwhelming majority does not contribute but consume. Communities need participation, if you are not participating you are not giving back, you are leeching. If everyone is leeching, there is no community. Consumers are not entitled to the content of the producers. Producers both consume and produce. > To say lurkers shouldnt exist is extremely reductive and callous. I didn't claim that they shouldn't exist, I claimed that they are not the core of the community since they do not produce or otherwise interact with anyone else. If a tree fell in the forest and nobody heard it, did it make a sound?
  - goykasi 3y ago
    What percentage of those communities actually voted though? If it wasnt significant, was the poll even meaningful or representative of the community?
- spartanatreyu 3y ago
  > definitely more of a mod revolt than a user revolt As a user I completely disagree. As a user, I want to use a UI that works for me. I don't want to use a mobile website that prevents me from reading comments and forces me to use an app. As a user, I want a service that releases quality of life fixes, not a service that says the fixes are coming for years but instead decides to release half-baked features every 6 months chasing some other feature in some other flash-in-the-pan social media service. As a user, I want adware, low quality comments, and rule breaking comments removed from my subreddits. If the mods are upset at reddit because the mods can't effectively maintain those subreddits, then I'm upset at reddit too. As a user, I want open APIs so I can log into different services to see better stats on my own account. As a user, I want to see notifications that let me know when someone replied to me, not random junk notifications that I get automatically opted into. As a user, I want to be able to edit my comments while I'm writing them and not have them unrecoverably and randomly delete mid-edit. This wasn't just some mod revolt, this was the straw that broke the camel's back. I spent 9 years being part of a community fixing other's code and linking to my own code as examples that others can draw from. I deleted my 9-year old account 2 days ago: https://i.imgur.com/m54CBan.png https://i.imgur.com/m54CBan.png
  - deafpolygon 3y ago
    You'll be back.
    - 8organicbits 3y ago
      Many of us left Twitter not too long ago, and have not returned. I wouldn't be so sure.
      - deafpolygon 3y ago
        That's Twitter. They'll be back to Reddit before long.
    - spartanatreyu 3y ago
      HN, lobste.rs, and kbin are serving me just fine.
Broken_Hippo 3y ago
That said, short of preemptively having coordinated something, I don't know where else they'd organize. Then instead of saying how bad of a look it is, perhaps lament that there isn't a better alternative to organize. A place where reddit both absolutely knows what is going on (after all, they can look at their own subs), the public can see what is going on, and where all the mods would know to go. Seriously. This complaint is about as fruitless as complaining that a poor person isn't paying for the 12 pack of toilet paper when they only have money for the 4 pack while now knowing how they are supposed to afford the cheaper-per-roll 12 pack.
- boomboomsubban 3y ago
  >Then instead of saying how bad of a look it is, perhaps lament that there isn't a better alternative to organize That's what the part you quoted is doing. It still looks bad, it's like organizing a boycott of Walmart and seeing the boycott leaders leaving Walmart with supplies to make placards. Maybe it was their only real option, but it looks terrible.

opdahl 3y ago

What are you talking about? How are the mods exempt from the blackout? You think all community mods can see all the private subreddits?

boomboomsubban 3y ago
No, but they're continuing to use Reddit.

jazzyjackson 3y ago

Yea, definitely more of a mod revolt than a user revolt I feel like a lot of users have had it up to here with mod abuse too, maybe smaller subreddits with less automation would be preferable to mega reddits with bots that auto-ban you for being new to the community

PartiallyTyped 3y ago
Polls were held in many subreddits; if a subreddit is the community - which it is - then the will of the participants is the will of the community and those who communicate it.
- hax0ron3 3y ago
  I think that such polls tend to vastly over-represent the small subsets of those communities who care enough about the issue to vote. Voting is very rare in subreddits so I imagine that probably most users of those subreddits did not even realize that the votes were happening. And knowing how authoritarian Reddit mods usually are, I doubt very much that for the most part they would not have done whatever they wanted to do even if the votes had gone against them. The voting is just a fig leaf.
  - abhibeckert 3y ago
    The only subreddit where I saw a vote, it was something like 95% of people voted for a blackout. Almost nobody is siding with reddit on this.
  - davidgerard 3y ago
    you mean, it's massively biased to the actual participants and contributors? Yeah, that's good.
  - PartiallyTyped 3y ago
    The people who care are the kind of people who make the community. The community is the content and those who post it, aka the core that ties everything everything together. Lurkers are not part of the community, they might as well not even exist.
    - goykasi 3y ago
      If lurkers don't exist, the community doesn't exist. It's well established that internet forums and communities consist of >=90% of users not contributing -- but consuming[1]. A small portion produce where as an overwhelming portion consume. To say lurkers shouldnt exist is extremely reductive and callous. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule
      - PartiallyTyped 3y ago
        I am well aware that the overwhelming majority does not contribute but consume. Communities need participation, if you are not participating you are not giving back, you are leeching. If everyone is leeching, there is no community. Consumers are not entitled to the content of the producers. Producers both consume and produce. > To say lurkers shouldnt exist is extremely reductive and callous. I didn't claim that they shouldn't exist, I claimed that they are not the core of the community since they do not produce or otherwise interact with anyone else. If a tree fell in the forest and nobody heard it, did it make a sound?
- goykasi 3y ago
  What percentage of those communities actually voted though? If it wasnt significant, was the poll even meaningful or representative of the community?
spartanatreyu 3y ago
> definitely more of a mod revolt than a user revolt As a user I completely disagree. As a user, I want to use a UI that works for me. I don't want to use a mobile website that prevents me from reading comments and forces me to use an app. As a user, I want a service that releases quality of life fixes, not a service that says the fixes are coming for years but instead decides to release half-baked features every 6 months chasing some other feature in some other flash-in-the-pan social media service. As a user, I want adware, low quality comments, and rule breaking comments removed from my subreddits. If the mods are upset at reddit because the mods can't effectively maintain those subreddits, then I'm upset at reddit too. As a user, I want open APIs so I can log into different services to see better stats on my own account. As a user, I want to see notifications that let me know when someone replied to me, not random junk notifications that I get automatically opted into. As a user, I want to be able to edit my comments while I'm writing them and not have them unrecoverably and randomly delete mid-edit. This wasn't just some mod revolt, this was the straw that broke the camel's back. I spent 9 years being part of a community fixing other's code and linking to my own code as examples that others can draw from. I deleted my 9-year old account 2 days ago: https://i.imgur.com/m54CBan.png https://i.imgur.com/m54CBan.png
- deafpolygon 3y ago
  You'll be back.
  - 8organicbits 3y ago
    Many of us left Twitter not too long ago, and have not returned. I wouldn't be so sure.
    - deafpolygon 3y ago
      That's Twitter. They'll be back to Reddit before long.
  - spartanatreyu 3y ago
    HN, lobste.rs, and kbin are serving me just fine.

Broken_Hippo 3y ago

That said, short of preemptively having coordinated something, I don't know where else they'd organize. Then instead of saying how bad of a look it is, perhaps lament that there isn't a better alternative to organize. A place where reddit both absolutely knows what is going on (after all, they can look at their own subs), the public can see what is going on, and where all the mods would know to go. Seriously. This complaint is about as fruitless as complaining that a poor person isn't paying for the 12 pack of toilet paper when they only have money for the 4 pack while now knowing how they are supposed to afford the cheaper-per-roll 12 pack.

boomboomsubban 3y ago
>Then instead of saying how bad of a look it is, perhaps lament that there isn't a better alternative to organize That's what the part you quoted is doing. It still looks bad, it's like organizing a boycott of Walmart and seeing the boycott leaders leaving Walmart with supplies to make placards. Maybe it was their only real option, but it looks terrible.