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There seems to be interest on HN when it comes to articles about Crowley and similar figures. Can some one help me understand why it's popular with this audien

by xupybd 3y ago

There seems to be interest on HN when it comes to articles about Crowley and similar figures. Can some one help me understand why it's popular with this audience?

b800h 3y ago
"The method of science, the aim of religion." Crowley appeals to people who have had enough religion to recognise that there's something to it, but can't reconcile it with the scientific materialism in our dominant culture, and are intelligent enough to want to try.
- JoeJonathan 3y ago
  I think it’s more that he was a provocateur and beloved by prominent figures in the psychedelic subculture.
layman51 3y ago
I’ve wondered the same thing too. I don’t really keep up to date on political stuff, but I get the feeling that there is a history that links libertarianism, the tech sector, transhumanism, and occultism. I had seen stuff about how Peter Thiel has funded a bunch of art-related events that may sometimes utilize this esoteric aesthetic.
- the_other 3y ago
  Crowley inspired Jack Parsons who helped found the Jet Propulsion Lab. He’s the forerunner of the 60s free-love & drugs movement, which informs Steven Brand’s Whole Earth Catalog and Don Buchla. Crowley’s also the easiest mystic to find in the English speaking world, and maybe “the west”. He cultivated infamy, leaving traces of himself all over the media through the early 20th century. I think he’s the first “influencer”, the first to take power-for-power’s sake out of church and national leadership and to use it to influence the public at large. And he also pretends to teach others how to do that too, through his writings. He’s the model for all TV evangelists. (Actually, he was rubbish at bringing in money so he’s the model of what not to do if you want to be a TV evangelist) He’s also a case study in the moral decay of power. Born rich; squandered it all; cares about no-one whilst professing a system of universal love; retired to relative obscurity, heroin addiction, and obsession with prostitutes. The tarot deck he made with Lady Frida Harris is incredible.
  - the_other 3y ago
    Replying to myself, and to expand on a point I didn't make as well as I should. I don't think there's any moral or ethical problem with offering or consuming prostitution. There's a moral and ethical problem with how prostitution is handled and how many prostitutes are treated. I dare say Crowley made liberal use of the bad behaviours society tolerates around prostitution. The "moral decay of power" and "obsession with prostitutes" which I'm talking about here refers to Crowley's seeming lack of care about anyone, and disinterest in cultivating love for the sake of company and shared enjoyment of activities. His poorly-acknowledged need for intimacy and connection drove him to only have transactional relationships that petered out, or exhausted the participants, levering all parties under-nourished or wounded. Of course, I wasn't there and didn't see any of this happen. I'm inferring based on casual research. The notable sources behind these opinions are: [0]: a well regarded biography of Crowley - https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/201713/perdurabo-revised-and-expanded-edition-by-richard-kaczynski/ https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/201713/perdurabo-re... [1]: a podcast on the Crowley's latter years in London (and generally a good series on esoterica, psychedelia and a particular take on "the counter culture") - https://www.mixcloud.com/sohoradio/bureau-of-lost-culture-city-of-the-beast-aleister-crowleys-london-05062022/ https://www.mixcloud.com/sohoradio/bureau-of-lost-culture-ci... [2]: occasional off-hand discussions with friends and similar ideas echoed in places like the Rune Soup podcast - http://podcast.runesoup.com http://podcast.runesoup.com (there's probably some episodes on Crowely specifically but I'm taking reference more from the general opinion of him expressed by the podcast's presenter)
TheSpiceIsLife 3y ago
I don’t reckon HN is a coherent whole that can be this audienced.
- xupybd 3y ago
  You're correct, but there are enough in this audience that upvote and share this stuff to get me wondering why. I'm not making a judgement on the topic, but it seems to me to be a little different to most everything else on here.
InCityDreams 3y ago
I like boats, too.
cykros 3y ago
Well, for one, Drs. Timothy Leary and John Lilly were both avid readers of his methods, and it helped shape their take on what in large part can be seen (and is sometimes explicitly referred to) as "programming the human mind." Ritual can be seen as a routine designed as an input that brings about a desired output, much like code being put into a machine. For people who like the intersection of programming and the brain as a computer analogy, this scratches an itch. And when it comes to really initiating at least a semi-scientific approach to rituals of antiquity, Crowley was right in the middle of it. William James would be another good place to look if you ask me -- though honestly, Crowley mentions this in his reading lists, among quite a few good other sources. I agree that he also has a lot of baggage -- the man enjoyed manipulating people, gaining power, and of course, gaining money to feed his cocaine and heroin habits. He was also a spy for MI-6. In some of his better moments he actively sought NOT to be some sort of messiah, but in many of his more mischievous times he reveled in it. Tread carefully -- but yes, there's a lot to be curious about.

by xupybd 3y ago

There seems to be interest on HN when it comes to articles about Crowley and similar figures. Can some one help me understand why it's popular with this audience?

b800h 3y ago

"The method of science, the aim of religion." Crowley appeals to people who have had enough religion to recognise that there's something to it, but can't reconcile it with the scientific materialism in our dominant culture, and are intelligent enough to want to try.

JoeJonathan 3y ago
I think it’s more that he was a provocateur and beloved by prominent figures in the psychedelic subculture.

layman51 3y ago

I’ve wondered the same thing too. I don’t really keep up to date on political stuff, but I get the feeling that there is a history that links libertarianism, the tech sector, transhumanism, and occultism. I had seen stuff about how Peter Thiel has funded a bunch of art-related events that may sometimes utilize this esoteric aesthetic.

the_other 3y ago
Crowley inspired Jack Parsons who helped found the Jet Propulsion Lab. He’s the forerunner of the 60s free-love & drugs movement, which informs Steven Brand’s Whole Earth Catalog and Don Buchla. Crowley’s also the easiest mystic to find in the English speaking world, and maybe “the west”. He cultivated infamy, leaving traces of himself all over the media through the early 20th century. I think he’s the first “influencer”, the first to take power-for-power’s sake out of church and national leadership and to use it to influence the public at large. And he also pretends to teach others how to do that too, through his writings. He’s the model for all TV evangelists. (Actually, he was rubbish at bringing in money so he’s the model of what not to do if you want to be a TV evangelist) He’s also a case study in the moral decay of power. Born rich; squandered it all; cares about no-one whilst professing a system of universal love; retired to relative obscurity, heroin addiction, and obsession with prostitutes. The tarot deck he made with Lady Frida Harris is incredible.
- the_other 3y ago
  Replying to myself, and to expand on a point I didn't make as well as I should. I don't think there's any moral or ethical problem with offering or consuming prostitution. There's a moral and ethical problem with how prostitution is handled and how many prostitutes are treated. I dare say Crowley made liberal use of the bad behaviours society tolerates around prostitution. The "moral decay of power" and "obsession with prostitutes" which I'm talking about here refers to Crowley's seeming lack of care about anyone, and disinterest in cultivating love for the sake of company and shared enjoyment of activities. His poorly-acknowledged need for intimacy and connection drove him to only have transactional relationships that petered out, or exhausted the participants, levering all parties under-nourished or wounded. Of course, I wasn't there and didn't see any of this happen. I'm inferring based on casual research. The notable sources behind these opinions are: [0]: a well regarded biography of Crowley - https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/201713/perdurabo-revised-and-expanded-edition-by-richard-kaczynski/ https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/201713/perdurabo-re... [1]: a podcast on the Crowley's latter years in London (and generally a good series on esoterica, psychedelia and a particular take on "the counter culture") - https://www.mixcloud.com/sohoradio/bureau-of-lost-culture-city-of-the-beast-aleister-crowleys-london-05062022/ https://www.mixcloud.com/sohoradio/bureau-of-lost-culture-ci... [2]: occasional off-hand discussions with friends and similar ideas echoed in places like the Rune Soup podcast - http://podcast.runesoup.com http://podcast.runesoup.com (there's probably some episodes on Crowely specifically but I'm taking reference more from the general opinion of him expressed by the podcast's presenter)

TheSpiceIsLife 3y ago

I don’t reckon HN is a coherent whole that can be this audienced.

xupybd 3y ago
You're correct, but there are enough in this audience that upvote and share this stuff to get me wondering why. I'm not making a judgement on the topic, but it seems to me to be a little different to most everything else on here.

InCityDreams 3y ago

I like boats, too.

cykros 3y ago

Well, for one, Drs. Timothy Leary and John Lilly were both avid readers of his methods, and it helped shape their take on what in large part can be seen (and is sometimes explicitly referred to) as "programming the human mind." Ritual can be seen as a routine designed as an input that brings about a desired output, much like code being put into a machine. For people who like the intersection of programming and the brain as a computer analogy, this scratches an itch. And when it comes to really initiating at least a semi-scientific approach to rituals of antiquity, Crowley was right in the middle of it. William James would be another good place to look if you ask me -- though honestly, Crowley mentions this in his reading lists, among quite a few good other sources. I agree that he also has a lot of baggage -- the man enjoyed manipulating people, gaining power, and of course, gaining money to feed his cocaine and heroin habits. He was also a spy for MI-6. In some of his better moments he actively sought NOT to be some sort of messiah, but in many of his more mischievous times he reveled in it. Tread carefully -- but yes, there's a lot to be curious about.