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I love that the CEO calls the users voicing their displeasure "noise". When those users voice opinions on other things, it's called content. When those users v

I love that the CEO calls the users voicing their displeasure "noise". When those users voice opinions on other things, it's called content. When those users voice their opinions against reddit, it's noise. Hoffman continues to display a fundamental misunderstanding of what Reddit is. The very people that give your platform its value are revolting against you, and you think it's noise. What's your product? What do you create? In what way will Reddit thrive only with what you put into it? Where do you think the content you lace your ads between comes from?

slater 3y ago
"Windows users"...?
- CommitSyn 3y ago
  When those.
- 22c 3y ago
  Probably "When those".. Maybe GP is using dictaton?
  - brookst 3y ago
    When does oozers dun flown da coop…
raincole 3y ago
My personal (cynical) bet is that Huffman actually understands what Reddit is better than us, and Reddit will be just fine after this. To be completely honest, if a two-day blackout is proven to be the most serious "protest" the community can do, I'll buy Reddit stock when it IPO.
- afavour 3y ago
  I agree. I think that this is a turning point for Reddit but not towards failure: they’re ditching the hardcore nerd audience that made them. But they’ve long since outgrown that audience and will likely (as a company) do just fine without them. As a community there will be a notable loss.
  - linuxftw 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - CoastalCoder 3y ago
      Why do you believe this?
  - raincole 3y ago
    > they’re ditching the hardcore nerd audience that made them If it's just the nerd audience I'll bet Reddit win without thinking. But it's more than that: they're ditching some mods who rely on 3rd party apps, and some users who stay on Reddit for NSFW content. So yeah, I still think Reddit will be fine, but I'll be happy to be proven wrong.
  - tlear 3y ago
    Who is going to mod it.. couple reddits that I follow daily are public again, however there are no new posts as mods stopped accepting anything. I am genuinely curious how this is going to work going forward.
    - goykasi 3y ago
      Reddit (the company) controls the platform. They can just install new mods if the current mods arent doing their job. I doubt most users would even notice that the mod names have changed.
      - tlear 3y ago
        They will then need to find an pay those mods.
- XorNot 3y ago
  Eh...the real problem with shutting down Apollo is that it makes the volunteer moderators lives much harder. Those are the people who provide any value to reddit as a platform. The protest could end today, the 3rd party apps go...and if the volunteer mods go with it, then the site as a whole tumbles onto a decline that eventually kills it.
  - shortweb3 3y ago
    This. Have you ever seen unmoderated Reddit, it’s called 4chan.
    - mcbutterbunz 3y ago
      This is actually a great way to protest. If the subreddits going dark for two days isn’t enough, start posting porn or other bad type of content to popular subs that don’t have many mods.
    - richbell 3y ago
      This comparison doesn't really work because 4chan boards tend to be pretty strictly moderated. It's just that the threshold of what's considered acceptable is lower.
  - btown 3y ago
    Some of the things that volunteer mods defend against is bot spam, repost spam, karma mining, abusive comments, and brigading. Unless Reddit has AI solutions for all of these (not a real suggestion - it's an arms race against similarly-AI-using spammers, and if Reddit had the engineering culture of ByteDance then it would have already built the moderator tools people had been requesting since 2015!) then its niche and generalist subreddits alike will lose their culture and quality faster than one can blink an eye.
    - nullc 3y ago
      > Some of the things that volunteer mods defend against is traffic, traffic, engagement, traffic, and engagement. > then its niche and generalist subreddits alike will lose their culture and quality faster than one can blink an eye reddit chaotically overriding subreddit moderation decisions has had that effect for a while.
- ink_13 3y ago
  If Reddit isn't going to value its communities, it's just going to turn into a clone of the bloated corpse of "I Can Has Cheeseburger", an endless stream of cat pictures and short videos, posted and reposted. High in traffic, maybe, but catering only to the lowest common denominator, stripped of the things that made it valuable to long-time users. But that's probably fine with them. Reddit seems to have taken that the position that users are fungible, which (particularly when they depend on volunteer moderators) seems somewhat dubious to me.
  - ars 3y ago
    That's kind of all that Reddit is to me. There are some exceptions, but for the most part Reddit posters are some of the stupidest humans on the internet. They are great fun with cat pictures and other stupid content. And you'll have the occasional laser-focused sub-reddit (that will be a loss). But the vast vast vast majority? Utter stupidity.
    - aembleton 3y ago
      That's OK, you don't have to subscribe to the ones with stupid content. Just subscribe to the ones with laser-focused content.
    - piva00 3y ago
      The occasional laser-focused subreddit has been my bread and butter on reddit for the past 15 years. I never access /r/popular or /r/all or any of the default subreddits, all my usage on reddit is from niche communities about my hobbies, and through the past 15 years each new hobby I started there was a subreddit to kickstart it full of information and a community. That's going to be the biggest loss. Most of reddit the past 10 years has been shifting towards new users just lazily scrolling /r/popular but those users are not profitable, they don't generate value, the ads will be poorly targeted. The laser-focused subreddits is where the value of reddit as a platform comes from, I don't like advertising but I could tolerate targeting on those subreddits as it'd be relevant without invading users' privacy (like the old days of AdSense using the context of the page for ads, not profiling the user). The vast majority is utter stupidity, I agree, but that is a part of reddit that you can completely avoid if you are a bit more of a power user... It will suck when it dies.
- predictabl3 3y ago
  Steve's out here slandering would-be partners, lying to employees, and shoving increasing mountains of poop under the rug. We're approaching 4D-chess big brain energy here. Also, let's not keep conveniently leaving out that a growing number of subs are pledging to continue the protest.
- threeseed 3y ago
  We still don't know what the impact will be of Instagram's upcoming Twitter clone. It does look like more of a hybrid between Twitter and Reddit with the threaded conversations and nerd-friendly API layer i.e. ActivityPub.
  - zarzavat 3y ago
    It will never have the one thing that people come to Reddit for right? NSFW. Not porn precisely, but a range of freedom of expression that goes beyond the narrow band of expression allowed on Zuck’s platforms. Reddit has always tried to thread the needle of having 4chan-like freedom without 4chan-like anarchy. That’s the secret to its success.
- dvngnt_ 3y ago
  buying stock makes little sense when an avg user is many times less valuable than IG or tiktok. they're already struggling with worse service on the way. at least Google and meta have world-class programmers. what's reddit's moat?
  - Freebytes 3y ago
    The only moat Reddit has is the critical mass of users. Numerous clones exist (such as Hacker News), and a new minimum viable product could be built in a couple of weeks. But once you have the users, it is pretty easy to keep them... unless you make them turn against you.
- basch 3y ago
  Is there any measure of how many accounts were scrubbed by scripts and deleted?
  - bombcar 3y ago
    Sounds like something you could use an API to find out … oh wait.
- pcurve 3y ago
  He could use it as an excuse to restructure the Mod authority, flagging it as shareholder risk. And that will kick off the slow demise.
- mariusor 3y ago
  As someone that has been using reddit for a decade and a half, I agree with you. We the old timers are stuck in the "good ol' days", when reddit didn't have any subreddits, discussions were mostly about technical topics, and the meme du jour was to put dollar signs in Microsoft's name. I think it has stopped being that a long, long time ago, and Steve kept track better than us what the new demographics of reddit are. I am sad that the reddit I enjoyed is no more, but I am looking forwards to the new crop of discussion platforms (or whatever else) that will crop up.
moralestapia 3y ago
>Hoffman continues to display a fundamental misunderstanding of what Reddit is. No, you and others' wishful thinking lead you to a fundamental misunderstanding of what Reddit and Hoffman are. This is just the standard "how to run a business" MBA crap at play. The website you think Reddit is doesn't exist; and that doesn't even matter, as for them it's just another black box that makes money.
Semaphor 3y ago
I kinda agree, but on the other hand, the statistics were sad. The site I used [0] is currently down, but from what I remember, even with so many subreddits being private, posts per minute went from 1.2k to 1k, and comments per minute from 8k to 7k (talking about the peaks of the curve in both cases). That is a pretty low reduction and imo shows how those of us who care are not a majority, and the whole thing might end up being nothing more than a gamer-protest. edit: back up, peak comments from below 7k to below 6k; peak posts from about 1.2k to 1.1k [0]: https://blackout.photon-reddit.com/ https://blackout.photon-reddit.com/
2-718-281-828 3y ago
> Hoffman continues to display a fundamental misunderstanding of what Reddit is. hoffman founded reddit ... together with btw aaron swartz.
- somsak2 3y ago
  this is a well known fact that he trumpets all the time. founders getting out of touch with their products isn't anything new.
mock-possum 3y ago
yeah this really has been a mask-off moment for spez.

slater 3y ago

"Windows users"...?

CommitSyn 3y ago
When those.
22c 3y ago
Probably "When those".. Maybe GP is using dictaton?
- brookst 3y ago
  When does oozers dun flown da coop…

raincole 3y ago

My personal (cynical) bet is that Huffman actually understands what Reddit is better than us, and Reddit will be just fine after this. To be completely honest, if a two-day blackout is proven to be the most serious "protest" the community can do, I'll buy Reddit stock when it IPO.

afavour 3y ago
I agree. I think that this is a turning point for Reddit but not towards failure: they’re ditching the hardcore nerd audience that made them. But they’ve long since outgrown that audience and will likely (as a company) do just fine without them. As a community there will be a notable loss.
- linuxftw 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - CoastalCoder 3y ago
    Why do you believe this?
- raincole 3y ago
  > they’re ditching the hardcore nerd audience that made them If it's just the nerd audience I'll bet Reddit win without thinking. But it's more than that: they're ditching some mods who rely on 3rd party apps, and some users who stay on Reddit for NSFW content. So yeah, I still think Reddit will be fine, but I'll be happy to be proven wrong.
- tlear 3y ago
  Who is going to mod it.. couple reddits that I follow daily are public again, however there are no new posts as mods stopped accepting anything. I am genuinely curious how this is going to work going forward.
  - goykasi 3y ago
    Reddit (the company) controls the platform. They can just install new mods if the current mods arent doing their job. I doubt most users would even notice that the mod names have changed.
    - tlear 3y ago
      They will then need to find an pay those mods.
XorNot 3y ago
Eh...the real problem with shutting down Apollo is that it makes the volunteer moderators lives much harder. Those are the people who provide any value to reddit as a platform. The protest could end today, the 3rd party apps go...and if the volunteer mods go with it, then the site as a whole tumbles onto a decline that eventually kills it.
- shortweb3 3y ago
  This. Have you ever seen unmoderated Reddit, it’s called 4chan.
  - mcbutterbunz 3y ago
    This is actually a great way to protest. If the subreddits going dark for two days isn’t enough, start posting porn or other bad type of content to popular subs that don’t have many mods.
  - richbell 3y ago
    This comparison doesn't really work because 4chan boards tend to be pretty strictly moderated. It's just that the threshold of what's considered acceptable is lower.
- btown 3y ago
  Some of the things that volunteer mods defend against is bot spam, repost spam, karma mining, abusive comments, and brigading. Unless Reddit has AI solutions for all of these (not a real suggestion - it's an arms race against similarly-AI-using spammers, and if Reddit had the engineering culture of ByteDance then it would have already built the moderator tools people had been requesting since 2015!) then its niche and generalist subreddits alike will lose their culture and quality faster than one can blink an eye.
  - nullc 3y ago
    > Some of the things that volunteer mods defend against is traffic, traffic, engagement, traffic, and engagement. > then its niche and generalist subreddits alike will lose their culture and quality faster than one can blink an eye reddit chaotically overriding subreddit moderation decisions has had that effect for a while.
ink_13 3y ago
If Reddit isn't going to value its communities, it's just going to turn into a clone of the bloated corpse of "I Can Has Cheeseburger", an endless stream of cat pictures and short videos, posted and reposted. High in traffic, maybe, but catering only to the lowest common denominator, stripped of the things that made it valuable to long-time users. But that's probably fine with them. Reddit seems to have taken that the position that users are fungible, which (particularly when they depend on volunteer moderators) seems somewhat dubious to me.
- ars 3y ago
  That's kind of all that Reddit is to me. There are some exceptions, but for the most part Reddit posters are some of the stupidest humans on the internet. They are great fun with cat pictures and other stupid content. And you'll have the occasional laser-focused sub-reddit (that will be a loss). But the vast vast vast majority? Utter stupidity.
  - aembleton 3y ago
    That's OK, you don't have to subscribe to the ones with stupid content. Just subscribe to the ones with laser-focused content.
  - piva00 3y ago
    The occasional laser-focused subreddit has been my bread and butter on reddit for the past 15 years. I never access /r/popular or /r/all or any of the default subreddits, all my usage on reddit is from niche communities about my hobbies, and through the past 15 years each new hobby I started there was a subreddit to kickstart it full of information and a community. That's going to be the biggest loss. Most of reddit the past 10 years has been shifting towards new users just lazily scrolling /r/popular but those users are not profitable, they don't generate value, the ads will be poorly targeted. The laser-focused subreddits is where the value of reddit as a platform comes from, I don't like advertising but I could tolerate targeting on those subreddits as it'd be relevant without invading users' privacy (like the old days of AdSense using the context of the page for ads, not profiling the user). The vast majority is utter stupidity, I agree, but that is a part of reddit that you can completely avoid if you are a bit more of a power user... It will suck when it dies.
predictabl3 3y ago
Steve's out here slandering would-be partners, lying to employees, and shoving increasing mountains of poop under the rug. We're approaching 4D-chess big brain energy here. Also, let's not keep conveniently leaving out that a growing number of subs are pledging to continue the protest.
threeseed 3y ago
We still don't know what the impact will be of Instagram's upcoming Twitter clone. It does look like more of a hybrid between Twitter and Reddit with the threaded conversations and nerd-friendly API layer i.e. ActivityPub.
- zarzavat 3y ago
  It will never have the one thing that people come to Reddit for right? NSFW. Not porn precisely, but a range of freedom of expression that goes beyond the narrow band of expression allowed on Zuck’s platforms. Reddit has always tried to thread the needle of having 4chan-like freedom without 4chan-like anarchy. That’s the secret to its success.
dvngnt_ 3y ago
buying stock makes little sense when an avg user is many times less valuable than IG or tiktok. they're already struggling with worse service on the way. at least Google and meta have world-class programmers. what's reddit's moat?
- Freebytes 3y ago
  The only moat Reddit has is the critical mass of users. Numerous clones exist (such as Hacker News), and a new minimum viable product could be built in a couple of weeks. But once you have the users, it is pretty easy to keep them... unless you make them turn against you.
basch 3y ago
Is there any measure of how many accounts were scrubbed by scripts and deleted?
- bombcar 3y ago
  Sounds like something you could use an API to find out … oh wait.
pcurve 3y ago
He could use it as an excuse to restructure the Mod authority, flagging it as shareholder risk. And that will kick off the slow demise.
mariusor 3y ago
As someone that has been using reddit for a decade and a half, I agree with you. We the old timers are stuck in the "good ol' days", when reddit didn't have any subreddits, discussions were mostly about technical topics, and the meme du jour was to put dollar signs in Microsoft's name. I think it has stopped being that a long, long time ago, and Steve kept track better than us what the new demographics of reddit are. I am sad that the reddit I enjoyed is no more, but I am looking forwards to the new crop of discussion platforms (or whatever else) that will crop up.

moralestapia 3y ago

>Hoffman continues to display a fundamental misunderstanding of what Reddit is. No, you and others' wishful thinking lead you to a fundamental misunderstanding of what Reddit and Hoffman are. This is just the standard "how to run a business" MBA crap at play. The website you think Reddit is doesn't exist; and that doesn't even matter, as for them it's just another black box that makes money.

Semaphor 3y ago

I kinda agree, but on the other hand, the statistics were sad. The site I used [0] is currently down, but from what I remember, even with so many subreddits being private, posts per minute went from 1.2k to 1k, and comments per minute from 8k to 7k (talking about the peaks of the curve in both cases). That is a pretty low reduction and imo shows how those of us who care are not a majority, and the whole thing might end up being nothing more than a gamer-protest. edit: back up, peak comments from below 7k to below 6k; peak posts from about 1.2k to 1.1k [0]: https://blackout.photon-reddit.com/ https://blackout.photon-reddit.com/

2-718-281-828 3y ago

> Hoffman continues to display a fundamental misunderstanding of what Reddit is. hoffman founded reddit ... together with btw aaron swartz.

somsak2 3y ago
this is a well known fact that he trumpets all the time. founders getting out of touch with their products isn't anything new.

mock-possum 3y ago

yeah this really has been a mask-off moment for spez.