4 ms·

I had to write with a fountain pen as a kid. It felt normal then, but looking back it seems silly. Those things blot. Not just while writing, but also when han

by lucumo 3y ago

I had to write with a fountain pen as a kid. It felt normal then, but looking back it seems silly. Those things blot. Not just while writing, but also when handling the paper afterwards. So you'd have to use blotting paper, and/or wait. In the mean time a ballpoint pen would be done and dry. You also have to hold a fountain pen juuuust right to write. Not rotated correctly? You're scraping paper instead of writing. Pressing a bit too hard? Waterfall of ink on your paper. Ballpoint pens will write in whatever rotation and with whatever pressure you want. Pencils will even write upside down. Ink also runs out way quicker for some reason. So you're messing with refilling those pens more. Ballpoint pens are just a superior technology, which is why fountain pens are so rarely used nowadays. I feel the love of fountain pens is just nostalgia. A love for the past that makes people overlook flaws.

midiguy 3y ago
This sounds precisely like the mechanical vs quartz watch debate. The $50 Casio keeps better time, is more durable, and requires less maintenance than the $10k Rolex. Practically speaking, there is no debate to be had. But it won't stop people from being fascinated by the prospect of time being kept solely by the movement of highly precise little gears. When it comes to fountain pens though, the practical concerns you brought up are not wrong but somewhat overstated, and to me a fountain pen honestly feels nicer to write with than a ballpoint, so it's not solely an aesthetic.
- falcolas 3y ago
  I love that you can get mechanical watches for between $50 an $100 now. They don't keep great time (loose/gain a few seconds a day), but there's something mesmerizing about watching that second hand sweep.
  - midiguy 3y ago
    Yeah, I got a Seiko 5 for under a hundred bucks awhile ago which was actually scary accurate. The only thing that irks me about cheap mechanicals is that the movement is essentially disposable like a battery, as it's way more expensive to service than replace. To me, this diminishes the mechanical cool factor a bit.
    - falcolas 3y ago
      I agree, for under $100, they'll probably last under a year of solid use. And I agree that they're not generally worth getting serviced (though, if you want a new hobby...), the lack of good jewels on the pivot points will kill you. I swap mine out with some Citizen solar powered analog watches, and both of my mechanical ones are still going strong.
      - SanjayMehta 3y ago
        I have several Seiko 5s, the oldest is around 20 years old. Never been opened. The trick is to use them in turn regularly. I also have an inherited Omega which is 60+ years old. This was serviced once when I got it, 25 years ago.
      - 2-718-281-828 3y ago
        just slap $200 on your $100 watch budget and get a proper mechanical seiko. beats a rolex any time. why? because rolex is just an eta movement slapped in a rolex casing. a seiko is a seiko movement in a seiko casing. and such a seiko watch can be serviced in seiko stores which you'll find in many larger towns all around the world. even if you want to spend four digits on a watch - never a rolex. so many better options.
derefr 3y ago
There are two kinds of fountain pens; or rather, there are two kinds of fountain pen nibs. There are the kind that have a little ball or flattened wedge at the end — which makes the stroke of them uniform, and thereby essentially just makes them into an "aesthetic" ballpoint pen. That's the kind that the article is talking about. It's silly, but I don't think it's the kind you used. These nibs really are engineered to just act like a ballpoint pen in a weird shape — they are paired with more viscous inks, whose surface tension prevents outflow except on dry paper, and so stops blotting. Then there's the other kind — the kind with a nib that comes to a sharp, thin, flexible point of metal — which is the "traditional" fountain pen that someone from the early 1900s would recognize. I think this is the kind you recall using. I don't think anyone today is of the opinion that a "traditional" fountain pen makes a good "writing pen", any more than a hunk of charcoal would make a good "writing pencil." They're not for that. (At least, not any more.) "Traditional" fountain pens are instead sold and marketed, in the modern era, as being for art — specifically, calligraphy. Where all of the things you mentioned aren't really a problem, because you're being very careful and slow and exacting, to put down a sparing and precisely-controlled amount of ink, on very carefully selected paper, after a lot of practice strokes on scrap paper.
coldtea 3y ago
It's not about the convenience. It's about the ritual. People either get it, or not.
slowmovintarget 3y ago
Ballpoint pens require pressure to melt the ink paste to apply it to the page. For those with arthritis, this can be a problem. Fountain pens apply liquid ink to the page through capillary action, meaning the nib merely needs to touch the paper for ink to be left there. Advantage: fountain pen. In order to apply the pressure, the writing angle of a ballpoint pen to paper must also be much higher. This is less ergonomic in general. Advantage: fountain pen. If you are pressing a fountain pen into the page, you are using it incorrectly. It's meant to glide across the page. Because it glides, and you can use it at a more ergonomic angle, without pressing, you can relax your hand. This means you can write for longer. Advantage: fountain pen. Fountain pens are not disposable, you refill them with ink, and if you use a converter, or an integral filling system (vacuum, lever and sac, piston, eye-dropper) you are not discarding any kind of plastic pieces to clutter the environment. Advantage: fountain pen. With the same fountain pen, you gain the use of hundreds of different inks across the entire spectrum. Inks that sheen, inks that shade, inks with shimmer, perfumed inks, even invisible inks! Advantage: fountain pen. Ballpoint advantages: cheap, useful for carbon forms, work for super-cheap paper, and yes, they work in zero-G when pressurized. Roller ball and gel pens are superior to ballpoints. But fountain pens have them beat, especially for people with RSI or arthritis issues. As for nib sweet spots, Lamy Safari's can write from most rotations just fine, and their grip will help you orient the nib properly. You probably also haven't used quick-drying inks. They often don't require any sort of blotting, though that depends on paper "sizing" (the coating on the paper).

by lucumo 3y ago

midiguy 3y ago

This sounds precisely like the mechanical vs quartz watch debate. The $50 Casio keeps better time, is more durable, and requires less maintenance than the $10k Rolex. Practically speaking, there is no debate to be had. But it won't stop people from being fascinated by the prospect of time being kept solely by the movement of highly precise little gears. When it comes to fountain pens though, the practical concerns you brought up are not wrong but somewhat overstated, and to me a fountain pen honestly feels nicer to write with than a ballpoint, so it's not solely an aesthetic.

falcolas 3y ago
I love that you can get mechanical watches for between $50 an $100 now. They don't keep great time (loose/gain a few seconds a day), but there's something mesmerizing about watching that second hand sweep.
- midiguy 3y ago
  Yeah, I got a Seiko 5 for under a hundred bucks awhile ago which was actually scary accurate. The only thing that irks me about cheap mechanicals is that the movement is essentially disposable like a battery, as it's way more expensive to service than replace. To me, this diminishes the mechanical cool factor a bit.
  - falcolas 3y ago
    I agree, for under $100, they'll probably last under a year of solid use. And I agree that they're not generally worth getting serviced (though, if you want a new hobby...), the lack of good jewels on the pivot points will kill you. I swap mine out with some Citizen solar powered analog watches, and both of my mechanical ones are still going strong.
    - SanjayMehta 3y ago
      I have several Seiko 5s, the oldest is around 20 years old. Never been opened. The trick is to use them in turn regularly. I also have an inherited Omega which is 60+ years old. This was serviced once when I got it, 25 years ago.
    - 2-718-281-828 3y ago
      just slap $200 on your $100 watch budget and get a proper mechanical seiko. beats a rolex any time. why? because rolex is just an eta movement slapped in a rolex casing. a seiko is a seiko movement in a seiko casing. and such a seiko watch can be serviced in seiko stores which you'll find in many larger towns all around the world. even if you want to spend four digits on a watch - never a rolex. so many better options.

derefr 3y ago

There are two kinds of fountain pens; or rather, there are two kinds of fountain pen nibs. There are the kind that have a little ball or flattened wedge at the end — which makes the stroke of them uniform, and thereby essentially just makes them into an "aesthetic" ballpoint pen. That's the kind that the article is talking about. It's silly, but I don't think it's the kind you used. These nibs really are engineered to just act like a ballpoint pen in a weird shape — they are paired with more viscous inks, whose surface tension prevents outflow except on dry paper, and so stops blotting. Then there's the other kind — the kind with a nib that comes to a sharp, thin, flexible point of metal — which is the "traditional" fountain pen that someone from the early 1900s would recognize. I think this is the kind you recall using. I don't think anyone today is of the opinion that a "traditional" fountain pen makes a good "writing pen", any more than a hunk of charcoal would make a good "writing pencil." They're not for that. (At least, not any more.) "Traditional" fountain pens are instead sold and marketed, in the modern era, as being for art — specifically, calligraphy. Where all of the things you mentioned aren't really a problem, because you're being very careful and slow and exacting, to put down a sparing and precisely-controlled amount of ink, on very carefully selected paper, after a lot of practice strokes on scrap paper.

coldtea 3y ago

It's not about the convenience. It's about the ritual. People either get it, or not.

slowmovintarget 3y ago

Ballpoint pens require pressure to melt the ink paste to apply it to the page. For those with arthritis, this can be a problem. Fountain pens apply liquid ink to the page through capillary action, meaning the nib merely needs to touch the paper for ink to be left there. Advantage: fountain pen. In order to apply the pressure, the writing angle of a ballpoint pen to paper must also be much higher. This is less ergonomic in general. Advantage: fountain pen. If you are pressing a fountain pen into the page, you are using it incorrectly. It's meant to glide across the page. Because it glides, and you can use it at a more ergonomic angle, without pressing, you can relax your hand. This means you can write for longer. Advantage: fountain pen. Fountain pens are not disposable, you refill them with ink, and if you use a converter, or an integral filling system (vacuum, lever and sac, piston, eye-dropper) you are not discarding any kind of plastic pieces to clutter the environment. Advantage: fountain pen. With the same fountain pen, you gain the use of hundreds of different inks across the entire spectrum. Inks that sheen, inks that shade, inks with shimmer, perfumed inks, even invisible inks! Advantage: fountain pen. Ballpoint advantages: cheap, useful for carbon forms, work for super-cheap paper, and yes, they work in zero-G when pressurized. Roller ball and gel pens are superior to ballpoints. But fountain pens have them beat, especially for people with RSI or arthritis issues. As for nib sweet spots, Lamy Safari's can write from most rotations just fine, and their grip will help you orient the nib properly. You probably also haven't used quick-drying inks. They often don't require any sort of blotting, though that depends on paper "sizing" (the coating on the paper).