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The problem lies in where the money comes from the execute taking the company private. A big bank will issue the debt, then peddle the debt as AAA rated into a

The problem lies in where the money comes from the execute taking the company private. A big bank will issue the debt, then peddle the debt as AAA rated into all of America's 401k's via their friends at the brokerages. You think the banks are just sitting on those debts hoping to make it to maturity? And it's never the PE firm that owes the debt, they're able to get paid back by the thing they buy, and that shell owes the debt. The losses are socialized among the public.

Invictus0 3y ago
You think the banks are so stupid that they just let PE firms saddle them with a bunch of debt and walk away? Bank PE loans are almost always senior loans, meaning the loan has to be completely repaid before you can start distributing dividends.
- linuxftw 3y ago
  If the banks have sold the debt, they don't care if it's paid or not, they're already paid.
- AlexandrB 3y ago
  2008 proved that banks are plenty stupid, especially if they think they can sell the bad debt to someone else before it explodes.
oatmeal1 3y ago
> A big bank will issue the debt, then peddle the debt as AAA rated into all of America's 401k's via their friends at the brokerages. Do you have any links about this? I'd like to learn more about how this scheme works.
- linuxftw 3y ago
  https://debtexplorer.whitecase.com/leveraged-finance-commentary/active-private-equity-firms-buoy-buyout-issuance# https://debtexplorer.whitecase.com/leveraged-finance-comment...! I don't think that's going to walk you through all the steps, but it shows you there's a market for buyout bonds, aka, the bonds that pay the PE firms back so they saddle the buyout debt onto the companies themselves. There's no shortage of 'funds' that buy this garbage. When a bond has a certain credit rating, it's going to get sucked up into the funds, and those funds aren't capitalized by Warren Buffett, they get cash from Joe and Jane Doe's 401k. That's how it works.
Aunche 3y ago
Sorry, but you have no idea what you're talking about. There's no way debt from a leveraged buyout is going to be rated anywhere close to AAA. The leveraged buyouts of Twitter and Toy's R Us were funded by junk bonds. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-31/twitter-s-credit-grade-cut-by-moody-s-following-leveraged-buyout#:~:text=The%20credit%20rating%20company%20cut,weakening%20of%20other%20credit%20metrics https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-31/twitter-s.... https://www.moodys.com/credit-ratings/Toys-R-US-Inc-Old-credit-rating-756700?lang=es-ar&cy=arg https://www.moodys.com/credit-ratings/Toys-R-US-Inc-Old-cred...
- linuxftw 3y ago
  Don't worry, the banks figured out how to solve this problem decades ago, they're called CBOs: https://thebusinessprofessor.com/en_US/investments-trading-financial-markets/collateralized-bond-obligation https://thebusinessprofessor.com/en_US/investments-trading-f... Basically, you take a bunch of junk, package it up, and like magic, it's investment grade.
refurb 3y ago
No, PE firms either use investor money or take loans against the business itself. It's a high risk game, anybody investing knows exactly what's up.

Invictus0 3y ago

You think the banks are so stupid that they just let PE firms saddle them with a bunch of debt and walk away? Bank PE loans are almost always senior loans, meaning the loan has to be completely repaid before you can start distributing dividends.

linuxftw 3y ago
If the banks have sold the debt, they don't care if it's paid or not, they're already paid.
AlexandrB 3y ago
2008 proved that banks are plenty stupid, especially if they think they can sell the bad debt to someone else before it explodes.

oatmeal1 3y ago

> A big bank will issue the debt, then peddle the debt as AAA rated into all of America's 401k's via their friends at the brokerages. Do you have any links about this? I'd like to learn more about how this scheme works.

linuxftw 3y ago
https://debtexplorer.whitecase.com/leveraged-finance-commentary/active-private-equity-firms-buoy-buyout-issuance# https://debtexplorer.whitecase.com/leveraged-finance-comment...! I don't think that's going to walk you through all the steps, but it shows you there's a market for buyout bonds, aka, the bonds that pay the PE firms back so they saddle the buyout debt onto the companies themselves. There's no shortage of 'funds' that buy this garbage. When a bond has a certain credit rating, it's going to get sucked up into the funds, and those funds aren't capitalized by Warren Buffett, they get cash from Joe and Jane Doe's 401k. That's how it works.

Aunche 3y ago

Sorry, but you have no idea what you're talking about. There's no way debt from a leveraged buyout is going to be rated anywhere close to AAA. The leveraged buyouts of Twitter and Toy's R Us were funded by junk bonds. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-31/twitter-s-credit-grade-cut-by-moody-s-following-leveraged-buyout#:~:text=The%20credit%20rating%20company%20cut,weakening%20of%20other%20credit%20metrics https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-31/twitter-s.... https://www.moodys.com/credit-ratings/Toys-R-US-Inc-Old-credit-rating-756700?lang=es-ar&cy=arg https://www.moodys.com/credit-ratings/Toys-R-US-Inc-Old-cred...

linuxftw 3y ago
Don't worry, the banks figured out how to solve this problem decades ago, they're called CBOs: https://thebusinessprofessor.com/en_US/investments-trading-financial-markets/collateralized-bond-obligation https://thebusinessprofessor.com/en_US/investments-trading-f... Basically, you take a bunch of junk, package it up, and like magic, it's investment grade.

refurb 3y ago

No, PE firms either use investor money or take loans against the business itself. It's a high risk game, anybody investing knows exactly what's up.