4 ms·

Conjugate Acids and Bases

psychphysic 3y ago
Interesting article, but I wish OPs would give us a comment on what made it worth sharing to them.
- PlasmonOwl 3y ago
  Yeah I mean this is high-school level chemistry, right?
  - icepat 3y ago
    Essentially yes, what's a bit more interesting is Lewis Acid theory, as well as acid ionisation reactions. Lewis theory makes a lot of generally non acidic things technically acidic: https://chemed.chem.purdue.edu/genchem/topicreview/bp/ch11/lewis.php#:~:text=A%20Lewis%20acid%20is%20therefore,therefore%20an%20electron%2Dpair%20donor https://chemed.chem.purdue.edu/genchem/topicreview/bp/ch11/l....
    - gilleain 3y ago
      As another interesting semi-related topic, what about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superacid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superacid - they are super! Also one of them is magic! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_acid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_acid :)
      - mikeyouse 3y ago
        I was just remembering these while playing with my pool chemistry. Had the fleeting memory of negative pHs too -- always fun when a maxim you're taught in early education (pH scale is from 0 - 14) is later given a few exceptions. https://www.thoughtco.com/is-a-negative-ph-possible-603653 https://www.thoughtco.com/is-a-negative-ph-possible-603653
        icepat 3y ago
        Well, negative pH is mathematically impossible, given that pH is the -log of the hydrogen ion concentration. It makes no physical sense to discuss "negative hydrogen ion concentration". If anything, it's mostly a shorthand than an actual phenomenon.
        tmearnest 3y ago
        Check this out https://chemistry.stackexchange.com/questions/5737/is-a-negative-ph-level-physically-possible https://chemistry.stackexchange.com/questions/5737/is-a-nega...
        mikeyouse 3y ago
        If you go one step further than the simple math formula - pH isn't just describing the concentration of hydrogen ions in a solution but rather that solution's ability to donate/accept H+ ions. So a solution of strong acid which is inhibited to fully dissociate into H+ and it's anion would have a pH much lower than the measured value in the solution. As H+ ions are donated, the acid in solution further dissociates providing more H+ ions, so clearly the solution is more acidic than originally measured. This is how mine water and volcanic hot springs end up with negative pH; https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/17247528.pdf https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/17247528.pdf
      - PlasmonOwl 3y ago
        My first ever lecture was on magic acid in 2012! Ha. Introductory inorganic chemistry
- demaga 3y ago
  I think it's just a pun based on consistency models.
hgsgm 3y ago
This is a random section from a chemistry course? https://flexbooks.ck12.org/cbook/ck-12-chemistry-flexbook-2.0/ https://flexbooks.ck12.org/cbook/ck-12-chemistry-flexbook-2.... Would be a more accessible document for the audience.
- icepat 3y ago
  Chemistry student are also prolific pirates, any chemistry text you could want is typically available on the web in a PDF format. My personal favourite, Wade's Organic Chemistry 8th Edition, is easily findable on Google.
zimpenfish 3y ago
Reminds me of one of the childhood book titles that I inexplicably remember even as I forget things from last week - "Acids, Bases and the Chemistry of the Covalent Bond". Which [1] tells me was written by Calvin A. VanderWerf, University of Kansas. [1] https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/ed039p273.2 https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/ed039p273.2
vondur 3y ago
As a Chem major it’s cool to see this, but not sure how it ended up on the front page?
Eavolution 3y ago
Even more interesting is how some chemicals (like water or amino acids) are amphoteric and act as both acids and bases, depending on what environment they are in.
pfdietz 3y ago
Gas phase Brønsted acids are kind of mind boggling, if I'm understanding them correctly. They are up to 10^(30) times more acidic than standard strong acids. The goal (I'm not sure if this has been reached) is a compound that in equilibrium has free protons, just bouncing around in space. (In solution, the free protons are always bound to something, for example H3O+ in water.)
chaosjevil 3y ago
Ah, Brønsted-Lewis. In defence of the OP: People informed on Chemistry usually take "acid = you'll get H₃O⁺ in water" and "base = you'll get OH⁻ in water"; that is, the Arrhenius' definition, updated for modern times. Brønsted-Lewis actually makes you think about what's going on (the transference of H⁺), in order to generalise it to other situations. For example, consider the following reaction: H₂O + HF ←→ OH⁻ + H₂F⁺ You don't get H₃O⁺ so by Arrhenius' [updated] definition there wouldn't be an acid there. But there is one - H₂O. And someone might say "but wait, Arrhenius talks about H⁺!" - well, go look for "bare" protons in nuclear fusion, not in chemical reactions.

Interesting article, but I wish OPs would give us a comment on what made it worth sharing to them.

PlasmonOwl 3y ago
Yeah I mean this is high-school level chemistry, right?
- icepat 3y ago
  Essentially yes, what's a bit more interesting is Lewis Acid theory, as well as acid ionisation reactions. Lewis theory makes a lot of generally non acidic things technically acidic: https://chemed.chem.purdue.edu/genchem/topicreview/bp/ch11/lewis.php#:~:text=A%20Lewis%20acid%20is%20therefore,therefore%20an%20electron%2Dpair%20donor https://chemed.chem.purdue.edu/genchem/topicreview/bp/ch11/l....
  - gilleain 3y ago
    As another interesting semi-related topic, what about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superacid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superacid - they are super! Also one of them is magic! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_acid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_acid :)
    - mikeyouse 3y ago
      I was just remembering these while playing with my pool chemistry. Had the fleeting memory of negative pHs too -- always fun when a maxim you're taught in early education (pH scale is from 0 - 14) is later given a few exceptions. https://www.thoughtco.com/is-a-negative-ph-possible-603653 https://www.thoughtco.com/is-a-negative-ph-possible-603653
      - icepat 3y ago
        Well, negative pH is mathematically impossible, given that pH is the -log of the hydrogen ion concentration. It makes no physical sense to discuss "negative hydrogen ion concentration". If anything, it's mostly a shorthand than an actual phenomenon.
        tmearnest 3y ago
        Check this out https://chemistry.stackexchange.com/questions/5737/is-a-negative-ph-level-physically-possible https://chemistry.stackexchange.com/questions/5737/is-a-nega...
        mikeyouse 3y ago
        If you go one step further than the simple math formula - pH isn't just describing the concentration of hydrogen ions in a solution but rather that solution's ability to donate/accept H+ ions. So a solution of strong acid which is inhibited to fully dissociate into H+ and it's anion would have a pH much lower than the measured value in the solution. As H+ ions are donated, the acid in solution further dissociates providing more H+ ions, so clearly the solution is more acidic than originally measured. This is how mine water and volcanic hot springs end up with negative pH; https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/17247528.pdf https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/17247528.pdf
    - PlasmonOwl 3y ago
      My first ever lecture was on magic acid in 2012! Ha. Introductory inorganic chemistry
demaga 3y ago
I think it's just a pun based on consistency models.

This is a random section from a chemistry course? https://flexbooks.ck12.org/cbook/ck-12-chemistry-flexbook-2.0/ https://flexbooks.ck12.org/cbook/ck-12-chemistry-flexbook-2.... Would be a more accessible document for the audience.

icepat 3y ago
Chemistry student are also prolific pirates, any chemistry text you could want is typically available on the web in a PDF format. My personal favourite, Wade's Organic Chemistry 8th Edition, is easily findable on Google.

zimpenfish 3y ago

Reminds me of one of the childhood book titles that I inexplicably remember even as I forget things from last week - "Acids, Bases and the Chemistry of the Covalent Bond". Which [1] tells me was written by Calvin A. VanderWerf, University of Kansas. [1] https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/ed039p273.2 https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/ed039p273.2

vondur 3y ago

As a Chem major it’s cool to see this, but not sure how it ended up on the front page?

Eavolution 3y ago

Even more interesting is how some chemicals (like water or amino acids) are amphoteric and act as both acids and bases, depending on what environment they are in.

pfdietz 3y ago

Gas phase Brønsted acids are kind of mind boggling, if I'm understanding them correctly. They are up to 10^(30) times more acidic than standard strong acids. The goal (I'm not sure if this has been reached) is a compound that in equilibrium has free protons, just bouncing around in space. (In solution, the free protons are always bound to something, for example H3O+ in water.)

chaosjevil 3y ago

Ah, Brønsted-Lewis. In defence of the OP: People informed on Chemistry usually take "acid = you'll get H₃O⁺ in water" and "base = you'll get OH⁻ in water"; that is, the Arrhenius' definition, updated for modern times. Brønsted-Lewis actually makes you think about what's going on (the transference of H⁺), in order to generalise it to other situations. For example, consider the following reaction: H₂O + HF ←→ OH⁻ + H₂F⁺ You don't get H₃O⁺ so by Arrhenius' [updated] definition there wouldn't be an acid there. But there is one - H₂O. And someone might say "but wait, Arrhenius talks about H⁺!" - well, go look for "bare" protons in nuclear fusion, not in chemical reactions.