5 ms·

Huh. Over here in Europe, we have these discussions all the time. They do get opinionated, of course. But it's not yet taboo.

by sho_hn 3y ago

Tagbert 3y ago
It's not in the US, but it seems some people have become socially fearful. I think that there is an artificial sense of risk possibly driving by 24x7 news and social media that prey on people's fears and anxieties.
- pizzafeelsright 3y ago
  I would not say artificial. An individual with whom I work spoke a common word, with respect, and despite being a respectable term for another person, a term agreed by all parties as acceptable except the offended party, the accused was contacted by HR and advised to no longer use that term. There are other anecdotes of course but this is one example that even the best intentions the accuser is never told their position is untenable.
  - comfypotato 3y ago
    What was the term?
  - Volundr 3y ago
    This anecdote is not only unverifiable (as most are), but vague to the point of uselessness. I don't doubt that there are all sorts of overzealous HR departments out there, but I can also think of all sorts of ways of using "respectable terms for another person" in disrespectful ways, and have met plenty of people far more creative than I am at doing so. And invariably these people will hide behind "I totally meant it respectfully" because frankly that's the game. A subtle jibe with just enough wiggle room to hide behind. Which is the case here? Who knows? The description of events as written works just as well for both.
    - ryanwaggoner 3y ago
      In either case, it feels a little overly dramatic to worry too much about a scenario where HR asks you to not use a word anymore. Is this what people mean when they worry about people being cancelled?
      - monksy 3y ago
        Is it overly dramatic to have HR dictate formally non-offensive speach? (I'm talking about non-derogatory and non-slur based language) Right now there is a wave of people that are upset over "violent language" (https://hopeandsafety.org/learn-more/violent-language/ https://hopeandsafety.org/learn-more/violent-language/) If push comes to shove.. they'd lose their marbles over that.
        magicalist 3y ago
        > Right now there is a wave of people that are upset over "violent language" There's absolutely nothing on that page to indicate they're upset about violent language > If push comes to shove.. they'd lose their marbles over that. There's even less indication of that. If the goal is for fewer people to overreact, why are we inventing boogeymen to overreact about?
        monksy 3y ago
        That page is there making a statement of examples of "bad language". It's an organization shooting it's shot on language change. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11714189/Latest-phrases-branded-offensive-violent-undertones.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11714189/Latest-phr... (DailyMail.. yuck yes) https://www.fastcompany.com/90865534/its-time-stop-using-violent-words-phrases-work https://www.fastcompany.com/90865534/its-time-stop-using-vio... https://elizabethgrim.com/adopting-inclusive-and-non-violent-language-part-2/ https://elizabethgrim.com/adopting-inclusive-and-non-violent...
        magicalist 3y ago
- monksy 3y ago
  It's not artificial. You can and will be isolated, excommunicated, wrong think, and separated based on your acceptance of new language definitions and sensibilities. There have been groups out there that have enforced this via "Code of Conduct" agreements in organizations.
- flippinburgers 3y ago
  I have a younger sibling who is much younger than me. I would have to disagree and say that they are hypersensitive about conflicting opinions to the point that it could destroy a relationship to have an argument about the wrong subject.
zilti 3y ago
"Not yet" is the right way to say it. But there are more and more people who just totally love being in their self-reinforced victim narrative and throw a tantrum like a toddler whom you took his candy away if you disagree with them.

Huh. Over here in Europe, we have these discussions all the time. They do get opinionated, of course. But it's not yet taboo.

by sho_hn 3y ago

Huh. Over here in Europe, we have these discussions all the time. They do get opinionated, of course. But it's not yet taboo.

Tagbert 3y ago

It's not in the US, but it seems some people have become socially fearful. I think that there is an artificial sense of risk possibly driving by 24x7 news and social media that prey on people's fears and anxieties.

pizzafeelsright 3y ago
I would not say artificial. An individual with whom I work spoke a common word, with respect, and despite being a respectable term for another person, a term agreed by all parties as acceptable except the offended party, the accused was contacted by HR and advised to no longer use that term. There are other anecdotes of course but this is one example that even the best intentions the accuser is never told their position is untenable.
- comfypotato 3y ago
  What was the term?
- Volundr 3y ago
  This anecdote is not only unverifiable (as most are), but vague to the point of uselessness. I don't doubt that there are all sorts of overzealous HR departments out there, but I can also think of all sorts of ways of using "respectable terms for another person" in disrespectful ways, and have met plenty of people far more creative than I am at doing so. And invariably these people will hide behind "I totally meant it respectfully" because frankly that's the game. A subtle jibe with just enough wiggle room to hide behind. Which is the case here? Who knows? The description of events as written works just as well for both.
  - ryanwaggoner 3y ago
    In either case, it feels a little overly dramatic to worry too much about a scenario where HR asks you to not use a word anymore. Is this what people mean when they worry about people being cancelled?
    - monksy 3y ago
      Is it overly dramatic to have HR dictate formally non-offensive speach? (I'm talking about non-derogatory and non-slur based language) Right now there is a wave of people that are upset over "violent language" (https://hopeandsafety.org/learn-more/violent-language/ https://hopeandsafety.org/learn-more/violent-language/) If push comes to shove.. they'd lose their marbles over that.
      - magicalist 3y ago
        > Right now there is a wave of people that are upset over "violent language" There's absolutely nothing on that page to indicate they're upset about violent language > If push comes to shove.. they'd lose their marbles over that. There's even less indication of that. If the goal is for fewer people to overreact, why are we inventing boogeymen to overreact about?
        monksy 3y ago
        That page is there making a statement of examples of "bad language". It's an organization shooting it's shot on language change. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11714189/Latest-phrases-branded-offensive-violent-undertones.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11714189/Latest-phr... (DailyMail.. yuck yes) https://www.fastcompany.com/90865534/its-time-stop-using-violent-words-phrases-work https://www.fastcompany.com/90865534/its-time-stop-using-vio... https://elizabethgrim.com/adopting-inclusive-and-non-violent-language-part-2/ https://elizabethgrim.com/adopting-inclusive-and-non-violent...
        magicalist 3y ago
monksy 3y ago
It's not artificial. You can and will be isolated, excommunicated, wrong think, and separated based on your acceptance of new language definitions and sensibilities. There have been groups out there that have enforced this via "Code of Conduct" agreements in organizations.
flippinburgers 3y ago
I have a younger sibling who is much younger than me. I would have to disagree and say that they are hypersensitive about conflicting opinions to the point that it could destroy a relationship to have an argument about the wrong subject.

zilti 3y ago

"Not yet" is the right way to say it. But there are more and more people who just totally love being in their self-reinforced victim narrative and throw a tantrum like a toddler whom you took his candy away if you disagree with them.