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What I find interesting and I am curious if these conversations can happen anymore. I no longer discuss anything related to gender, relationships, or personal

What I find interesting and I am curious if these conversations can happen anymore. I no longer discuss anything related to gender, relationships, or personal life dynamics with anyone outside of my bubble. I would enjoy the conversation, learning about another's ideas and understanding although despite assurances of maturity and openness conversation ends due to their inflammatory pronouncements. I do not believe ideas and ideals can be discussed with the general public.

aaomidi 3y ago
> I do not believe ideas and ideals can be discussed with the general public. On the contrary, I love having these discussions.
- murphyslaw 3y ago
  > On the contrary, I love having these discussions. Same, although my lawyer insists not to have them anymore when drinking.
sho_hn 3y ago
Huh. Over here in Europe, we have these discussions all the time. They do get opinionated, of course. But it's not yet taboo.
- Tagbert 3y ago
  It's not in the US, but it seems some people have become socially fearful. I think that there is an artificial sense of risk possibly driving by 24x7 news and social media that prey on people's fears and anxieties.
  - pizzafeelsright 3y ago
    I would not say artificial. An individual with whom I work spoke a common word, with respect, and despite being a respectable term for another person, a term agreed by all parties as acceptable except the offended party, the accused was contacted by HR and advised to no longer use that term. There are other anecdotes of course but this is one example that even the best intentions the accuser is never told their position is untenable.
    - comfypotato 3y ago
      What was the term?
    - Volundr 3y ago
      This anecdote is not only unverifiable (as most are), but vague to the point of uselessness. I don't doubt that there are all sorts of overzealous HR departments out there, but I can also think of all sorts of ways of using "respectable terms for another person" in disrespectful ways, and have met plenty of people far more creative than I am at doing so. And invariably these people will hide behind "I totally meant it respectfully" because frankly that's the game. A subtle jibe with just enough wiggle room to hide behind. Which is the case here? Who knows? The description of events as written works just as well for both.
      - ryanwaggoner 3y ago
        In either case, it feels a little overly dramatic to worry too much about a scenario where HR asks you to not use a word anymore. Is this what people mean when they worry about people being cancelled?
        monksy 3y ago
        Is it overly dramatic to have HR dictate formally non-offensive speach? (I'm talking about non-derogatory and non-slur based language) Right now there is a wave of people that are upset over "violent language" (https://hopeandsafety.org/learn-more/violent-language/ https://hopeandsafety.org/learn-more/violent-language/) If push comes to shove.. they'd lose their marbles over that.
        magicalist 3y ago
        > Right now there is a wave of people that are upset over "violent language" There's absolutely nothing on that page to indicate they're upset about violent language > If push comes to shove.. they'd lose their marbles over that. There's even less indication of that. If the goal is for fewer people to overreact, why are we inventing boogeymen to overreact about?
  - monksy 3y ago
    It's not artificial. You can and will be isolated, excommunicated, wrong think, and separated based on your acceptance of new language definitions and sensibilities. There have been groups out there that have enforced this via "Code of Conduct" agreements in organizations.
  - flippinburgers 3y ago
    I have a younger sibling who is much younger than me. I would have to disagree and say that they are hypersensitive about conflicting opinions to the point that it could destroy a relationship to have an argument about the wrong subject.
- zilti 3y ago
  "Not yet" is the right way to say it. But there are more and more people who just totally love being in their self-reinforced victim narrative and throw a tantrum like a toddler whom you took his candy away if you disagree with them.
majormajor 3y ago
When you say the "general public" do you mean the general online/Twitter public or, say, an acquaintance from a hobby?
- pizzafeelsright 3y ago
  People, not in my circles, who "touch grass" or are not entirely online.
maxsilver 3y ago
> conversation ends due to their inflammatory pronouncements. Where are you? In the US, most of us still have these conversations about gender, relationships, and life dynamics all the time. (If anything, this is arguably 70%+ of everything we talk about, among friends and acquaintances in the community). > although despite assurances of maturity and openness conversation ends due to their inflammatory pronouncements. Is there a common thread here? Can you imagine what might prompt such a response?
- chongli 3y ago
  What’s the average age of people in your social group? I’m guessing over 35. It’s a very different story if you try talking to people in their 20’s or younger.
  - maxsilver 3y ago
    We're "millenial-ish" (in that, we're all between 25 to 40yrs old). I myself am not over 35 just yet. > It’s a very different story if you try talking to people in their 20’s or younger. Is it? We're old enough that half of us have kids, and some of us have teenaged kids (13-19yrs old), and they also have friends and such. It doesn't seem that different to me. (They're less willing to tolerate arbitrary BS, but otherwise, don't seem wildly different than we were at those ages)
    - chongli 3y ago
      Teenagers who haven’t gone to college yet won’t be that different. When they move out and live among peers and take courses from professors with views very different from home, you’ll see how things change!
      - maxsilver 3y ago
        > When they move out and live among peers and take courses from professors with views very different from home, Why would professors have "views" all that different from home? Professors are regular people too. (Two of us in our friend group / community, are literally employed college professors, others are elementary teachers, software developers, IT folks, one designer, one electrical engineer, two in marketing, one who is in HR, one is a city bus driver, one who works in an automotive parts plant, one is a nurse, etc) You guys like, have friends, right? Like, people who you see semi-regularly and are from your community, but who aren't necessarily from your employer or in your career / direct field-of-work? Friends that aren't also LinkedIn contacts?
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
hkt 3y ago
You are the general public!
y-c-o-m-b 3y ago
I also avoid these types of conversations for the same reason. Even with people I know and have friendships with, I tend to be very cautious when approaching those topics. There's definitely a sense of "walking on eggshells", especially with the younger or more progressive crowd (note: I'm mostly progressive as well). I am nearly 40 and living in the West Coast of the US, so that may play a part.
- akomtu 3y ago
  What does it mean to be progressive w.r.t. dating these days?
  - civilitty 3y ago
    Affirmative Affection
908B64B197 3y ago
> I no longer discuss anything related to gender, relationships, or personal life dynamics with anyone outside of my bubble. It's also pointless to discuss them. People say all sorts of things, but then act completely differently!
throw10920 3y ago
If you're in the US, the reason for this above is because certain political groups have adopted a zero-tolerance stance on discussion on many topics, and viciously attack people who try to have conversations about them that aren't affirmations of their positions. > I do not believe ideas and ideals can be discussed with the general public. Although most cultures have always had at least some small set of "taboos" for which this was true, I believe that we're in times where that set is especially large, or at least it is for the above groups of people.

aaomidi 3y ago

> I do not believe ideas and ideals can be discussed with the general public. On the contrary, I love having these discussions.

murphyslaw 3y ago
> On the contrary, I love having these discussions. Same, although my lawyer insists not to have them anymore when drinking.

sho_hn 3y ago

Huh. Over here in Europe, we have these discussions all the time. They do get opinionated, of course. But it's not yet taboo.

Tagbert 3y ago
It's not in the US, but it seems some people have become socially fearful. I think that there is an artificial sense of risk possibly driving by 24x7 news and social media that prey on people's fears and anxieties.
- pizzafeelsright 3y ago
  I would not say artificial. An individual with whom I work spoke a common word, with respect, and despite being a respectable term for another person, a term agreed by all parties as acceptable except the offended party, the accused was contacted by HR and advised to no longer use that term. There are other anecdotes of course but this is one example that even the best intentions the accuser is never told their position is untenable.
  - comfypotato 3y ago
    What was the term?
  - Volundr 3y ago
    This anecdote is not only unverifiable (as most are), but vague to the point of uselessness. I don't doubt that there are all sorts of overzealous HR departments out there, but I can also think of all sorts of ways of using "respectable terms for another person" in disrespectful ways, and have met plenty of people far more creative than I am at doing so. And invariably these people will hide behind "I totally meant it respectfully" because frankly that's the game. A subtle jibe with just enough wiggle room to hide behind. Which is the case here? Who knows? The description of events as written works just as well for both.
    - ryanwaggoner 3y ago
      In either case, it feels a little overly dramatic to worry too much about a scenario where HR asks you to not use a word anymore. Is this what people mean when they worry about people being cancelled?
      - monksy 3y ago
        Is it overly dramatic to have HR dictate formally non-offensive speach? (I'm talking about non-derogatory and non-slur based language) Right now there is a wave of people that are upset over "violent language" (https://hopeandsafety.org/learn-more/violent-language/ https://hopeandsafety.org/learn-more/violent-language/) If push comes to shove.. they'd lose their marbles over that.
        magicalist 3y ago
        > Right now there is a wave of people that are upset over "violent language" There's absolutely nothing on that page to indicate they're upset about violent language > If push comes to shove.. they'd lose their marbles over that. There's even less indication of that. If the goal is for fewer people to overreact, why are we inventing boogeymen to overreact about?
- monksy 3y ago
  It's not artificial. You can and will be isolated, excommunicated, wrong think, and separated based on your acceptance of new language definitions and sensibilities. There have been groups out there that have enforced this via "Code of Conduct" agreements in organizations.
- flippinburgers 3y ago
  I have a younger sibling who is much younger than me. I would have to disagree and say that they are hypersensitive about conflicting opinions to the point that it could destroy a relationship to have an argument about the wrong subject.
zilti 3y ago
"Not yet" is the right way to say it. But there are more and more people who just totally love being in their self-reinforced victim narrative and throw a tantrum like a toddler whom you took his candy away if you disagree with them.

majormajor 3y ago

When you say the "general public" do you mean the general online/Twitter public or, say, an acquaintance from a hobby?

pizzafeelsright 3y ago
People, not in my circles, who "touch grass" or are not entirely online.

maxsilver 3y ago

> conversation ends due to their inflammatory pronouncements. Where are you? In the US, most of us still have these conversations about gender, relationships, and life dynamics all the time. (If anything, this is arguably 70%+ of everything we talk about, among friends and acquaintances in the community). > although despite assurances of maturity and openness conversation ends due to their inflammatory pronouncements. Is there a common thread here? Can you imagine what might prompt such a response?

chongli 3y ago
What’s the average age of people in your social group? I’m guessing over 35. It’s a very different story if you try talking to people in their 20’s or younger.
- maxsilver 3y ago
  We're "millenial-ish" (in that, we're all between 25 to 40yrs old). I myself am not over 35 just yet. > It’s a very different story if you try talking to people in their 20’s or younger. Is it? We're old enough that half of us have kids, and some of us have teenaged kids (13-19yrs old), and they also have friends and such. It doesn't seem that different to me. (They're less willing to tolerate arbitrary BS, but otherwise, don't seem wildly different than we were at those ages)
  - chongli 3y ago
    Teenagers who haven’t gone to college yet won’t be that different. When they move out and live among peers and take courses from professors with views very different from home, you’ll see how things change!
    - maxsilver 3y ago
      > When they move out and live among peers and take courses from professors with views very different from home, Why would professors have "views" all that different from home? Professors are regular people too. (Two of us in our friend group / community, are literally employed college professors, others are elementary teachers, software developers, IT folks, one designer, one electrical engineer, two in marketing, one who is in HR, one is a city bus driver, one who works in an automotive parts plant, one is a nurse, etc) You guys like, have friends, right? Like, people who you see semi-regularly and are from your community, but who aren't necessarily from your employer or in your career / direct field-of-work? Friends that aren't also LinkedIn contacts?

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

hkt 3y ago

You are the general public!

y-c-o-m-b 3y ago

I also avoid these types of conversations for the same reason. Even with people I know and have friendships with, I tend to be very cautious when approaching those topics. There's definitely a sense of "walking on eggshells", especially with the younger or more progressive crowd (note: I'm mostly progressive as well). I am nearly 40 and living in the West Coast of the US, so that may play a part.

akomtu 3y ago
What does it mean to be progressive w.r.t. dating these days?
- civilitty 3y ago
  Affirmative Affection

908B64B197 3y ago

> I no longer discuss anything related to gender, relationships, or personal life dynamics with anyone outside of my bubble. It's also pointless to discuss them. People say all sorts of things, but then act completely differently!

throw10920 3y ago

If you're in the US, the reason for this above is because certain political groups have adopted a zero-tolerance stance on discussion on many topics, and viciously attack people who try to have conversations about them that aren't affirmations of their positions. > I do not believe ideas and ideals can be discussed with the general public. Although most cultures have always had at least some small set of "taboos" for which this was true, I believe that we're in times where that set is especially large, or at least it is for the above groups of people.