4 ms·

can someone help me understand what's the core of the issue is? is it because they are now charging for APIs which used to be free? i hope that's the not the is

can someone help me understand what's the core of the issue is? is it because they are now charging for APIs which used to be free? i hope that's the not the issue because that's not a sustainable business. third party apps can grow revenue using Reddit's contents and Reddit don't see a penny from them. if the issue is the amount Reddit charge per call, why can't those third party apps charge their users more based on the API charge? the whole thing seems bit immature from both sides.

mulmen 3y ago
This has been discussed at length but I will summarize for you. Reddit is charging exorbitant fees for API access and they gave an unreasonably short time to adapt. 30 days is not enough time to completely change the business model of an app, so 3p apps are shutting down. Customers have already paid for annual subscriptions to Apollo for example so the app has to keep supporting those customers or refund them. But they will cost millions just in the first year with the new API fees. The business can't survive like that, so it has to shut down.
- perfectstorm 3y ago
  i see. i didn't realize it was a 30 day notice which is pretty short.
krisoft 3y ago
> if the issue is the amount Reddit charge per call, why can't those third party apps charge their users more based on the API charge? As a first approximation yes, the issue is the amount Reddit charges per call. The perception is that they are way overcharging for the calls, because the real message is that they don't want 3rd party apps to exist anymore.
wvenable 3y ago
This is a weird take. You're saying that 3rd party apps should just charge their users whatever is necessary to satisfy Reddit's pricing? As a user, I don't feel like that's a viable solution. Ultimately it's the users who pay and not the app makers. How much is Reddit worth to pay for only on mobile and with a degraded (no NSFW) experience?
- perfectstorm 3y ago
  I mean that's a common knowledge, no? if the cost of raw materials goes up, manufacturers hike up the prices of the final goods and consumers pay for it.
  - wvenable 3y ago
    Most people are perfectly happy paying for cost of materials + reasonable profit. It was expected. Reddit announced a month ago that were going to charge for API access -- no issues then. The Apollo developer himself already pays for API access for other services (like Imgur). However when they announced both the pricing and the timeline, it's pretty clear that they are unreasonable. Apollo finding it unsustainable is just one developer and one app. Other developers tried to reach out to Reddit to actually sign up and get more information and they were ignored. In principle, you are correct, this not a big deal. But in practice, it's been a total disaster. And didn't have to be that way -- they could have worked with their "partners" to ensure a win-win situation for everyone. Instead, they turned it into a lose-lose for everyone. They want control more than they want money. Reddit would rather get rid of me than find a way for me to pay and I'd be happy to pay for it.
    - perfectstorm 3y ago
      sounds like reddit want to kill all third party apps which is a bit unfortunate but this business practice is not very uncommon (Apple/Google with their 30% fees).
      - wvenable 3y ago
        I'm not sure how Apple/Google 30% relates? Those companies do a lot to support businesses on their platform. If you don't want to change anything, you get free hosting. For payments, they provide the entire infrastructure to support developers. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement even if the fees are quite high. If Reddit does want to kill all third party apps complaining about how they haven't done a single thing to actually support 3rd party developers is kind of moot. But the point of the protest is how underhanded that is; they would be manipulating users and developers by lying about the whole thing. And if they actually didn't want to kill all third party apps then they still lied and are also incompetent.

mulmen 3y ago

This has been discussed at length but I will summarize for you. Reddit is charging exorbitant fees for API access and they gave an unreasonably short time to adapt. 30 days is not enough time to completely change the business model of an app, so 3p apps are shutting down. Customers have already paid for annual subscriptions to Apollo for example so the app has to keep supporting those customers or refund them. But they will cost millions just in the first year with the new API fees. The business can't survive like that, so it has to shut down.

perfectstorm 3y ago
i see. i didn't realize it was a 30 day notice which is pretty short.

krisoft 3y ago

> if the issue is the amount Reddit charge per call, why can't those third party apps charge their users more based on the API charge? As a first approximation yes, the issue is the amount Reddit charges per call. The perception is that they are way overcharging for the calls, because the real message is that they don't want 3rd party apps to exist anymore.

wvenable 3y ago

This is a weird take. You're saying that 3rd party apps should just charge their users whatever is necessary to satisfy Reddit's pricing? As a user, I don't feel like that's a viable solution. Ultimately it's the users who pay and not the app makers. How much is Reddit worth to pay for only on mobile and with a degraded (no NSFW) experience?

perfectstorm 3y ago
I mean that's a common knowledge, no? if the cost of raw materials goes up, manufacturers hike up the prices of the final goods and consumers pay for it.
- wvenable 3y ago
  Most people are perfectly happy paying for cost of materials + reasonable profit. It was expected. Reddit announced a month ago that were going to charge for API access -- no issues then. The Apollo developer himself already pays for API access for other services (like Imgur). However when they announced both the pricing and the timeline, it's pretty clear that they are unreasonable. Apollo finding it unsustainable is just one developer and one app. Other developers tried to reach out to Reddit to actually sign up and get more information and they were ignored. In principle, you are correct, this not a big deal. But in practice, it's been a total disaster. And didn't have to be that way -- they could have worked with their "partners" to ensure a win-win situation for everyone. Instead, they turned it into a lose-lose for everyone. They want control more than they want money. Reddit would rather get rid of me than find a way for me to pay and I'd be happy to pay for it.
  - perfectstorm 3y ago
    sounds like reddit want to kill all third party apps which is a bit unfortunate but this business practice is not very uncommon (Apple/Google with their 30% fees).
    - wvenable 3y ago
      I'm not sure how Apple/Google 30% relates? Those companies do a lot to support businesses on their platform. If you don't want to change anything, you get free hosting. For payments, they provide the entire infrastructure to support developers. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement even if the fees are quite high. If Reddit does want to kill all third party apps complaining about how they haven't done a single thing to actually support 3rd party developers is kind of moot. But the point of the protest is how underhanded that is; they would be manipulating users and developers by lying about the whole thing. And if they actually didn't want to kill all third party apps then they still lied and are also incompetent.