5 ms·

I always get the gut-feeling that stuff like this is bad, and will be abused, and is the quasi-abolition of privacy... but when I go to explain to my parents, o

I always get the gut-feeling that stuff like this is bad, and will be abused, and is the quasi-abolition of privacy... but when I go to explain to my parents, or my siblings, or sometimes my peers why I feel uncomfortable about the implementation of stuff like this... I'm faced with a brick wall. We are in an interesting pivot point in American sociology where the privacy/safety trade-off has never been easier for members of the general public... and I am not sure that there is much we can do about it.

cyanydeez 3y ago
I have a gut feeling that if this were happening, you'd start with things like purchase orders and very boring matter of fact reporting details before launching into the cloak and dagger type of conspiracy reporting.
noman-land 3y ago
Many people view abuse by their own government to be unimaginable. So when you tell them you're scared of being abused by the US government, it doesn't make sense to them. This is the basis for the "nothing to hide" argument, which breaks down even under the mildest scrutiny.
- mu53 3y ago
  "One third of Gen Z supports government surveillance inside private homes to prevent abuse, crime: report"[1] It is the future, and its going to get worse. [1] https://thepostmillennial.com/one-third-of-gen-z-supports-government-surveillance-inside-private-homes-to-prevent-abuse-crime-report https://thepostmillennial.com/one-third-of-gen-z-supports-go...
  - mistertiddly 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - passing_by_and 3y ago
      Excellent, so it should be easy for you to support your argument with the factual data to back it up instead of ad-hominem attacks.
    - mu53 3y ago
      I brought up a study with a source. The neocon, PNAC-associated CATO institute has more sway in DC than most pro-privacy groups. It is lunacy to attack the messenger
  - midoridensha 3y ago
    They should ask the Gen-Zers who support this if they're OK with Ron DeSantis seeing the surveillance video.
peddling-brink 3y ago
It doesn’t need to be a gut feeling. This is a violent reactionary response to other violence. Violence + violence = more violence, until one side decides to stop fighting. But the violence being combated here has its roots in a distinct lack of proper mental health care and an increasingly violent political scene driven by the rise of fascism, which is driven by the increasing gap between the rich and the poor, encouraged by oligarchs who are enriched through regulatory capture, and accelerated by Citizens United. This product only takes away rights and doesn’t begin to try to solve any of the actual problems. I also don’t know that there is much we as individuals can do about it. But talking about it with friends and family is a good step.
- RabbiNoseberg 3y ago
  [dead]
Eumenes 3y ago
People simply don't care. They have 'nothing to hide', their lives are better than 99.99% of people who ever lived, and people are busy with other things, not invisible boogey men (which are real, just not to the average person).
- mistrial9 3y ago
  wrong - ordinary people are distracted, overwhelmed, and cannot change things that are done over months and years. Meanwhile, the uniform services are very compatible with this constant ID check, it is their daily life. New authority with few drawbacks, new sources of funding. Blaming casual citizens is lazy thinking IMO.
  - Eumenes 3y ago
    Yes, people have always been distracted and overwhelmed. Nothing new there. Ask your casual citizen then. People are unwilling to take the simple steps of removing spyware from their phone or daily life. That is lazy. Its also the first step. If everyday people just dumped these apps and web services, CIA/Mossad's of the world would have a very limited vector, and having been spoiled with direct links into everything for 20 years, would probably be clueless. People need to take responsibility for their own privacy and data security.
    - omniglottal 3y ago
      "Simple steps..."?! Lazy?? Yeah, all credibility was lost there. People, by and large, feel powerless - apathy comes from absence of agency as a coping mechanism. It's a 2-party system where one is the nanny-state authoritarians and the other more fascist authoritarian. Both surveil. Both engage in secrecy and subterfuge, and none have called for open governance, campaign finance reform, or anything that would take money out of our representatives' greedy, deep pockets. People know this. The wall they all hit: "What can I do about it?" I've been doing those things all my life, since before the WWW existed, and became a professional in the industry being leveraged for surveillance and control. It's hard. It's better we don't lie about why.
kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 3y ago
Interestingly, if you ask them if they fully trust the government, they'll likely say no. It's a strange paradox.

cyanydeez 3y ago

I have a gut feeling that if this were happening, you'd start with things like purchase orders and very boring matter of fact reporting details before launching into the cloak and dagger type of conspiracy reporting.

noman-land 3y ago

Many people view abuse by their own government to be unimaginable. So when you tell them you're scared of being abused by the US government, it doesn't make sense to them. This is the basis for the "nothing to hide" argument, which breaks down even under the mildest scrutiny.

mu53 3y ago
"One third of Gen Z supports government surveillance inside private homes to prevent abuse, crime: report"[1] It is the future, and its going to get worse. [1] https://thepostmillennial.com/one-third-of-gen-z-supports-government-surveillance-inside-private-homes-to-prevent-abuse-crime-report https://thepostmillennial.com/one-third-of-gen-z-supports-go...
- mistertiddly 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - passing_by_and 3y ago
    Excellent, so it should be easy for you to support your argument with the factual data to back it up instead of ad-hominem attacks.
  - mu53 3y ago
    I brought up a study with a source. The neocon, PNAC-associated CATO institute has more sway in DC than most pro-privacy groups. It is lunacy to attack the messenger
- midoridensha 3y ago
  They should ask the Gen-Zers who support this if they're OK with Ron DeSantis seeing the surveillance video.

peddling-brink 3y ago

It doesn’t need to be a gut feeling. This is a violent reactionary response to other violence. Violence + violence = more violence, until one side decides to stop fighting. But the violence being combated here has its roots in a distinct lack of proper mental health care and an increasingly violent political scene driven by the rise of fascism, which is driven by the increasing gap between the rich and the poor, encouraged by oligarchs who are enriched through regulatory capture, and accelerated by Citizens United. This product only takes away rights and doesn’t begin to try to solve any of the actual problems. I also don’t know that there is much we as individuals can do about it. But talking about it with friends and family is a good step.

RabbiNoseberg 3y ago
[dead]

Eumenes 3y ago

People simply don't care. They have 'nothing to hide', their lives are better than 99.99% of people who ever lived, and people are busy with other things, not invisible boogey men (which are real, just not to the average person).

mistrial9 3y ago
wrong - ordinary people are distracted, overwhelmed, and cannot change things that are done over months and years. Meanwhile, the uniform services are very compatible with this constant ID check, it is their daily life. New authority with few drawbacks, new sources of funding. Blaming casual citizens is lazy thinking IMO.
- Eumenes 3y ago
  Yes, people have always been distracted and overwhelmed. Nothing new there. Ask your casual citizen then. People are unwilling to take the simple steps of removing spyware from their phone or daily life. That is lazy. Its also the first step. If everyday people just dumped these apps and web services, CIA/Mossad's of the world would have a very limited vector, and having been spoiled with direct links into everything for 20 years, would probably be clueless. People need to take responsibility for their own privacy and data security.
  - omniglottal 3y ago
    "Simple steps..."?! Lazy?? Yeah, all credibility was lost there. People, by and large, feel powerless - apathy comes from absence of agency as a coping mechanism. It's a 2-party system where one is the nanny-state authoritarians and the other more fascist authoritarian. Both surveil. Both engage in secrecy and subterfuge, and none have called for open governance, campaign finance reform, or anything that would take money out of our representatives' greedy, deep pockets. People know this. The wall they all hit: "What can I do about it?" I've been doing those things all my life, since before the WWW existed, and became a professional in the industry being leveraged for surveillance and control. It's hard. It's better we don't lie about why.

kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 3y ago

Interestingly, if you ask them if they fully trust the government, they'll likely say no. It's a strange paradox.