4 ms·

I haven't been to SF in 20 years and reading the news I can't decide whether it's the 10th Circle of Hell or just another misunderstood American city. The comm

by jassyr 3y ago

I haven't been to SF in 20 years and reading the news I can't decide whether it's the 10th Circle of Hell or just another misunderstood American city. The comments eventually will support both sides equally no doubt.

carimura 3y ago
As always the story has many angles but overall the trend is not good. There are parts of the city that used to be "just kind of sketchy" which now are basically un-walkable for the average person, especially those who don't know the city. You can't leave anything visible in your car otherwise you'll return to a vehicle with a lot more airflow. And it's clear the commercial occupancy rates haven't returned and may not for some time. None of this is particularly unique to SF, but a lot of things hit SF at once, which makes the incredibly high housing prices and rents just not palatable anymore. It's still a great city and will surely return but the question is where is the bottom?
- xhkkffbf 3y ago
  Mark Roper, the former NASA engineer who designed glitter bombs to catch porch pirates, has also been putting out the bait in San Francisco. It's very sad how quickly the robberies happen. https://abc7news.com/glitter-bomb-package-mark-rober-youtube-video-sf-car-break-in/12594779/ https://abc7news.com/glitter-bomb-package-mark-rober-youtube...
  - dougSF70 3y ago
    Aka, the uni(corn)bomber.
- dougSF70 3y ago
  Realtors are desperately clinging on to the idea of $1000 per sq ft in an average neighborhood...
snotrockets 3y ago
s/misunderstood/misplanned/
- sparrish 3y ago
  Just like Detroit was 30 years ago. Though I doubt SF's decline will take nearly as long as Detroit's. The drug use and crime tolerance is higher now in SF than it ever was in Detroit. 15 years from now we'll have evidence of all the corruption, just like in Detroit, and no one will be surprised.
  - snotrockets 3y ago
    This isn't why Detroit got rekt, and this isn't why SF will get rekt. If at all, it's the "tough on crime" attitude that destroys city (just look at SF data: since the liberal DA got recalled in favor of cop-pandering one, crime has only risen)
danielvaughn 3y ago
I've been there a few times in the past few years, and while there are plenty of nice spots in the city, the parts that _aren't_ nice are hell on earth. I've been in lots of dangerous cities but SF is on another level with the amount of drug use and mental illness. It seems to be more common on west coast cities because I've seen similar things in Portland, Seattle, and even Vancouver.
- pstuart 3y ago
  The west coast is the dumping grounds for the mentally ill in other states. It deserves attention and resolution at a federal level. We need to institutionalize (not jail) these people, with the goal of helping to heal them with the expectation that some people are broken beyond repair.
- eBombzor 3y ago
  What is it with these coastal cities I truly wonder. Just better weather to be homeless?
  - TMWNN 3y ago
    >What is it with these coastal cities I truly wonder. Just better weather to be homeless? The city of San Francisco spends $70,000 annually per homeless person![0] The homeless there are homeless because severe mental and addiction issues cause them to reject help, not because resources aren't available. And no, weather is not the most important reason for why so many homeless come here. If it were, San Diego would have a worse homeless problem than San Francisco. The most important difference is that the city of San Diego spends one third as much as San Francisco per homeless person. ($46.8 million in city spending[1] for an estimated 1900 homeless.[2]) San Francisco has an enormous homeless-industrial complex that uses every virtue-signaling, heart-tugging propaganda tool at its disposal to increase the flow of money thrown into its bottomless maw, despite no metric ever improving one bit whatsoever. [0] <https://abc7news.com/sf-homeless-plan-housing-all-san-francisco-supervisor-rafael-mandelman/12760671/ https://abc7news.com/sf-homeless-plan-housing-all-san-franci...> [1] <https://www.lajollalight.com/news/story/2023-04-15/san-diego-mayors-proposed-budget-includes-millions-more-to-address-homelessness-and-streets https://www.lajollalight.com/news/story/2023-04-15/san-diego...> [2] <https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-02-07/downtown-homeless-population-reaches-another-high https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-02-07/downtown...> [3] [3] The count is only of the homeless in downtown San Diego. While presumably most homeless San Diegans are there, just as there are very few San Franciscans living on the sidewalk in Pac Heights, the point is that a larger number would mean that much less spending per homeless person in the city as a whole, and that much more glaring a discrepancy between the two cities.
fullshark 3y ago
It's in terrible shape, and the spotlight is larger due to political reasons as a topic of right wing propaganda. This of course causes the left + politicians to knee jerk deny the issues, and pretend everything is going great to defend the message at the national level which who cares?
francisofascii 3y ago
If you avoid this area, and don't go to that area at night, and don't park with stuff visible in your car, and don't have kids, and have a high income, etc. etc, then it is a wonderful city.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
gaoshan 3y ago
I first visited San Francisco almost 20 years ago and I loved it. I last went in late 2019 and I was horrified. The change was night and day from my perspective (and depressing as I saw this place that used to have a special vibe to me turned into what felt like, as an outside with limited experience to be clear, a dystopian wasteland)
joemazerino 3y ago
From my own circles nearly all of my friends have left SF. Even the ardent progressives are now noting increased rates of crime and are demanding for more police presence.
mrbombastic 3y ago
I lived there pre-pandemic in a not so great area for about 3 years, 7th and mission, and it was already pretty bad, people who came to visit were shocked. Buddy on a road trip got a bunch of his belongings stolen in a smash and grab on his car, a zip car I rented was stolen and taken for a joy ride, bicycles were robbed in broad daylight with guys walking around with literal caravans of shopping carts full of stolen bikes and parts, you were likely to step in human shit if you weren’t careful and people were often shooting up in broad daylight next to the subway station. The only plus side was most of the terribleness was confined to a small section of the city. I went back a year ago and it was like that small section had expanded to the rest of the city center and gotten much worse. Its a beautiful city I am rooting for it and I miss it but somethings gotta give.

by jassyr 3y ago

carimura 3y ago

As always the story has many angles but overall the trend is not good. There are parts of the city that used to be "just kind of sketchy" which now are basically un-walkable for the average person, especially those who don't know the city. You can't leave anything visible in your car otherwise you'll return to a vehicle with a lot more airflow. And it's clear the commercial occupancy rates haven't returned and may not for some time. None of this is particularly unique to SF, but a lot of things hit SF at once, which makes the incredibly high housing prices and rents just not palatable anymore. It's still a great city and will surely return but the question is where is the bottom?

xhkkffbf 3y ago
Mark Roper, the former NASA engineer who designed glitter bombs to catch porch pirates, has also been putting out the bait in San Francisco. It's very sad how quickly the robberies happen. https://abc7news.com/glitter-bomb-package-mark-rober-youtube-video-sf-car-break-in/12594779/ https://abc7news.com/glitter-bomb-package-mark-rober-youtube...
- dougSF70 3y ago
  Aka, the uni(corn)bomber.
dougSF70 3y ago
Realtors are desperately clinging on to the idea of $1000 per sq ft in an average neighborhood...

snotrockets 3y ago

s/misunderstood/misplanned/

sparrish 3y ago
Just like Detroit was 30 years ago. Though I doubt SF's decline will take nearly as long as Detroit's. The drug use and crime tolerance is higher now in SF than it ever was in Detroit. 15 years from now we'll have evidence of all the corruption, just like in Detroit, and no one will be surprised.
- snotrockets 3y ago
  This isn't why Detroit got rekt, and this isn't why SF will get rekt. If at all, it's the "tough on crime" attitude that destroys city (just look at SF data: since the liberal DA got recalled in favor of cop-pandering one, crime has only risen)

danielvaughn 3y ago

I've been there a few times in the past few years, and while there are plenty of nice spots in the city, the parts that _aren't_ nice are hell on earth. I've been in lots of dangerous cities but SF is on another level with the amount of drug use and mental illness. It seems to be more common on west coast cities because I've seen similar things in Portland, Seattle, and even Vancouver.

pstuart 3y ago
The west coast is the dumping grounds for the mentally ill in other states. It deserves attention and resolution at a federal level. We need to institutionalize (not jail) these people, with the goal of helping to heal them with the expectation that some people are broken beyond repair.
eBombzor 3y ago
What is it with these coastal cities I truly wonder. Just better weather to be homeless?
- TMWNN 3y ago
  >What is it with these coastal cities I truly wonder. Just better weather to be homeless? The city of San Francisco spends $70,000 annually per homeless person![0] The homeless there are homeless because severe mental and addiction issues cause them to reject help, not because resources aren't available. And no, weather is not the most important reason for why so many homeless come here. If it were, San Diego would have a worse homeless problem than San Francisco. The most important difference is that the city of San Diego spends one third as much as San Francisco per homeless person. ($46.8 million in city spending[1] for an estimated 1900 homeless.[2]) San Francisco has an enormous homeless-industrial complex that uses every virtue-signaling, heart-tugging propaganda tool at its disposal to increase the flow of money thrown into its bottomless maw, despite no metric ever improving one bit whatsoever. [0] <https://abc7news.com/sf-homeless-plan-housing-all-san-francisco-supervisor-rafael-mandelman/12760671/ https://abc7news.com/sf-homeless-plan-housing-all-san-franci...> [1] <https://www.lajollalight.com/news/story/2023-04-15/san-diego-mayors-proposed-budget-includes-millions-more-to-address-homelessness-and-streets https://www.lajollalight.com/news/story/2023-04-15/san-diego...> [2] <https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-02-07/downtown-homeless-population-reaches-another-high https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-02-07/downtown...> [3] [3] The count is only of the homeless in downtown San Diego. While presumably most homeless San Diegans are there, just as there are very few San Franciscans living on the sidewalk in Pac Heights, the point is that a larger number would mean that much less spending per homeless person in the city as a whole, and that much more glaring a discrepancy between the two cities.

fullshark 3y ago

It's in terrible shape, and the spotlight is larger due to political reasons as a topic of right wing propaganda. This of course causes the left + politicians to knee jerk deny the issues, and pretend everything is going great to defend the message at the national level which who cares?

francisofascii 3y ago

If you avoid this area, and don't go to that area at night, and don't park with stuff visible in your car, and don't have kids, and have a high income, etc. etc, then it is a wonderful city.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

gaoshan 3y ago

I first visited San Francisco almost 20 years ago and I loved it. I last went in late 2019 and I was horrified. The change was night and day from my perspective (and depressing as I saw this place that used to have a special vibe to me turned into what felt like, as an outside with limited experience to be clear, a dystopian wasteland)

joemazerino 3y ago

From my own circles nearly all of my friends have left SF. Even the ardent progressives are now noting increased rates of crime and are demanding for more police presence.

mrbombastic 3y ago

I lived there pre-pandemic in a not so great area for about 3 years, 7th and mission, and it was already pretty bad, people who came to visit were shocked. Buddy on a road trip got a bunch of his belongings stolen in a smash and grab on his car, a zip car I rented was stolen and taken for a joy ride, bicycles were robbed in broad daylight with guys walking around with literal caravans of shopping carts full of stolen bikes and parts, you were likely to step in human shit if you weren’t careful and people were often shooting up in broad daylight next to the subway station. The only plus side was most of the terribleness was confined to a small section of the city. I went back a year ago and it was like that small section had expanded to the rest of the city center and gotten much worse. Its a beautiful city I am rooting for it and I miss it but somethings gotta give.