8 ms·

Not sure if this is true. If you are high status you can easily afford this as you don't feel any repercussions at all. If you are low social status you might f

by laeri 3y ago

Not sure if this is true. If you are high status you can easily afford this as you don't feel any repercussions at all. If you are low social status you might feel the effects of being at that status and probably start caring greatly!

theelous3 3y ago
What repercussions do you imagine for someone you wouldn't think is high status?
- hotpotamus 3y ago
  That homeless man who was strangled to death on the NYC subway a few weeks ago comes to mind. I saw an incredible amount of argument that the strangling was justified based on assumptions likely due to his social status.
  - throwaway8582 3y ago
    I'm sure that had far more to do with the threats he was shouting at the other passengers than his social status
    - hotpotamus 3y ago
      Do you think the propensity to shout threats at people would affect one's social status?
    - FrustratedMonky 3y ago
      During recent protests in California, a white couple waved guns at the protestors. It was clearly, they had higher status, rich, white, and thus got a slap on the wrist. Black man on subway, yells, and dies. Very different outcomes. White, can wave guns around and make threats, its ok. Black, can raise voice, get killed, the killing is viewed as ok.
      - throwaway8582 3y ago
        It's quite easy to spin a false narrative when you cherry-pick cases, misrepresent facts, and leave out important context. > a white couple waved guns at the protestors If this is the case I'm thinking of, the protesters had broken down a gate and were trespassing on their property. What were they supposed to do in that situation? Risk their lives and property by putting themselves at the mercy of the mob? > Black, can raise voice That's a hell of a euphemism for "threatening to kill people". Apparently the subway riders felt that he was a real threat, because he was restrained by 3 people, and all of the passengers that have spoken up about it seemed to think it was necessary
        FrustratedMonky 3y ago
        I was wrong, it was St Louis. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57521756 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57521756 Mr Callahan described the demonstrators as a "racially mixed and peaceful group, including women and children", who had made a wrong turn on the way to their protest. There was no evidence the group was armed, he said. https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/local/video-shows-gate-was-intact-when-cwe-couple-pointed-guns-at-protesters/63-14a1582a-9372-4494-b8ee-41d5d4d71b61 https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/local/video-shows-gate-was... Video shows gate was intact when St. Louis couple pointed guns at protesters Videos and photographs show the couple pacing on their Portland Place property, periodically pointing the weapons at the crowd For the Yelling I've seen a lot of people yelling about killing people. People act out, 'verbally'. Typically they calm down. Yelling didn't use to be a crime, especially with a death sentence.
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    So do you think that anytime anyone ignores the social hierarchy they will be strangled? Nobody is saying that social hierarchy doesn't ever matter, just that it can be largely ignored with minimal consequences.
    - hotpotamus 3y ago
      Using a "so you're saying..." comment attached to a straw man might goad me on some days, but I'm not particularly feeling it today. Take it from someone who has felt the consequences of ignoring the social hierarchy on occasion that there are indeed consequences.
      - s1artibartfast 3y ago
        My point is that the fact that there can be consequences is different from there are always consequences. The fact that there can be consequences is also different from claiming that the consequences can't be accepted or ignored. I'm not goading you with a straw man. You are the one that made it.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- laeri 3y ago
  Some of these points are perceived situations in which social status affects its outcomes without proof but here they are. The main point is that if you have low status you will be treated differently which greatly changes your interactions with others. 1. You won't get treated fairly, someone with perceived high social status will get fairer treatment. This I personally witnessed in a hospital setting where the sole presence of someone "important" was notified in advance and they got more attention which means probably better attention to detail and therefore outcome in treatment. You might also receive worse service, such as in restaurants, flights, hotels. As people want to court and leave a better impression with someone in a social status 2. People will not respect you. As the article said status comes with respect. You might not judge others by their status but others will for sure judge you. They will talk behind their back about you and this will negatively affect any encounters with other people. Even if you don't judge others low social status will negatively discolor your interactions with others. 3. Also cause and effect might be inverted here. Low skill and ability in a specific domain usually leads to low status. Therefore other's treat you worse as your skills are of relative little importance in the domain. If someone in a tech setting can't solve trivial problems they will aquire low status and suffer in a multitude of ways. In the best case you will be ignored and assigned to tasks with relative little value. In the worst case you can't continue to work there. Just the fact that you have low social status should get you to worry. If you had better skill your social status would actually improve, at least to people that are in the same domain and value the particular skills needed there. Either you suffer repercussions due to your low social status or you suffer repercussions due to the factors that lead to your status.
  - theelous3 3y ago
    I don't think you're really addressing the question with the hospital example nor the others. I could be the senior engineer of Amazing Inc., as well as a jacked high level MMA fighter and gracious altruist - beloved by all known to me - but if someone who knows the hospital admins walks in they are of course going to get some preferential treatment. This sort of "I know a guy" status that gives you a leg up on other people _regardless_ of their status doesn't really capture the essence here, I think. I had an absolutely massive post written but I think it might be easier to ask, what do you think a low status person is?
FrustratedMonky 3y ago
Exactly. Someone has to already be high status, or somehow independently wealthy, to even have the opportunity to ignore others. This ability to ignore others is an indicator of already being high status.
- fnimick 3y ago
  See also: Be Wary of Imitating High-Status People Who Can Afford to Countersignal https://www.robkhenderson.com/p/the-perils-of-imitating-high-status https://www.robkhenderson.com/p/the-perils-of-imitating-high...
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  Nonsense. There is an abundance of people across the social status Spectrum that ignore others. Sometimes doing so comes with cost, but that doesn't mean it can't be done. Hello status person being rude to a high status person is not prohibited by the laws of physics.
  - FrustratedMonky 3y ago
    > "comes with cost" The point is the cost. There is a cost. If you are hungry and living on the margin, then the cost could be great enough you will die, then that behavior gets weeded out. If you are already high status enough to not worry about the cost, then you have enough resources, and 'higher' status. Think you are still thinking about the modern age, can you get a minimum wage job and completely ignore everyone and still survive? Maybe. Is that living? It is only a recent development where there are plentiful resources where this is possible. There is some arguments that people have made, that the modern glut of resources does lead to behaviors like this, because there are no longer the consequences of dying.
    - s1artibartfast 3y ago
      I guess I don't understand what you are saying. anti social humans and animals exits, but the behavior comes at a cost. It seems like you were saying that it is impossible to ignore social hierarchy and status, which simply isn't true. >can you get a minimum wage job and completely ignore everyone and still survive? Maybe. Is that living? By definition, yes, living is living. There are lots of assholes in this world, and they don't drop dead from ignoring social hierarchy. >Someone has to already be high status, or somehow independently wealthy, to even have the opportunity to ignore others. This ability to ignore others is an indicator of already being high status By your definition, the bum yelling at people on the street must be high status. Terrorists and criminals must also have high status, because they too chose to ignore social power structures. These are extreme examples obviously. To read these comments, you think it would be impossible to go through life ignoring social status when in fact it's commonly done. You can make it pretty far in life by simply treating people with human decency, but not granting special defference to people with social power. Ignoring social hierarchy doesn't mean you have to punch your boss or a police officer in the face, it means treating them like you would any other person
s1artibartfast 3y ago
I don't think they are claiming that Liberation comes without cost or repercussions.

by laeri 3y ago

theelous3 3y ago

What repercussions do you imagine for someone you wouldn't think is high status?

hotpotamus 3y ago
That homeless man who was strangled to death on the NYC subway a few weeks ago comes to mind. I saw an incredible amount of argument that the strangling was justified based on assumptions likely due to his social status.
- throwaway8582 3y ago
  I'm sure that had far more to do with the threats he was shouting at the other passengers than his social status
  - hotpotamus 3y ago
    Do you think the propensity to shout threats at people would affect one's social status?
  - FrustratedMonky 3y ago
    During recent protests in California, a white couple waved guns at the protestors. It was clearly, they had higher status, rich, white, and thus got a slap on the wrist. Black man on subway, yells, and dies. Very different outcomes. White, can wave guns around and make threats, its ok. Black, can raise voice, get killed, the killing is viewed as ok.
    - throwaway8582 3y ago
      It's quite easy to spin a false narrative when you cherry-pick cases, misrepresent facts, and leave out important context. > a white couple waved guns at the protestors If this is the case I'm thinking of, the protesters had broken down a gate and were trespassing on their property. What were they supposed to do in that situation? Risk their lives and property by putting themselves at the mercy of the mob? > Black, can raise voice That's a hell of a euphemism for "threatening to kill people". Apparently the subway riders felt that he was a real threat, because he was restrained by 3 people, and all of the passengers that have spoken up about it seemed to think it was necessary
      - FrustratedMonky 3y ago
        I was wrong, it was St Louis. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57521756 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57521756 Mr Callahan described the demonstrators as a "racially mixed and peaceful group, including women and children", who had made a wrong turn on the way to their protest. There was no evidence the group was armed, he said. https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/local/video-shows-gate-was-intact-when-cwe-couple-pointed-guns-at-protesters/63-14a1582a-9372-4494-b8ee-41d5d4d71b61 https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/local/video-shows-gate-was... Video shows gate was intact when St. Louis couple pointed guns at protesters Videos and photographs show the couple pacing on their Portland Place property, periodically pointing the weapons at the crowd For the Yelling I've seen a lot of people yelling about killing people. People act out, 'verbally'. Typically they calm down. Yelling didn't use to be a crime, especially with a death sentence.
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  So do you think that anytime anyone ignores the social hierarchy they will be strangled? Nobody is saying that social hierarchy doesn't ever matter, just that it can be largely ignored with minimal consequences.
  - hotpotamus 3y ago
    Using a "so you're saying..." comment attached to a straw man might goad me on some days, but I'm not particularly feeling it today. Take it from someone who has felt the consequences of ignoring the social hierarchy on occasion that there are indeed consequences.
    - s1artibartfast 3y ago
      My point is that the fact that there can be consequences is different from there are always consequences. The fact that there can be consequences is also different from claiming that the consequences can't be accepted or ignored. I'm not goading you with a straw man. You are the one that made it.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
laeri 3y ago
Some of these points are perceived situations in which social status affects its outcomes without proof but here they are. The main point is that if you have low status you will be treated differently which greatly changes your interactions with others. 1. You won't get treated fairly, someone with perceived high social status will get fairer treatment. This I personally witnessed in a hospital setting where the sole presence of someone "important" was notified in advance and they got more attention which means probably better attention to detail and therefore outcome in treatment. You might also receive worse service, such as in restaurants, flights, hotels. As people want to court and leave a better impression with someone in a social status 2. People will not respect you. As the article said status comes with respect. You might not judge others by their status but others will for sure judge you. They will talk behind their back about you and this will negatively affect any encounters with other people. Even if you don't judge others low social status will negatively discolor your interactions with others. 3. Also cause and effect might be inverted here. Low skill and ability in a specific domain usually leads to low status. Therefore other's treat you worse as your skills are of relative little importance in the domain. If someone in a tech setting can't solve trivial problems they will aquire low status and suffer in a multitude of ways. In the best case you will be ignored and assigned to tasks with relative little value. In the worst case you can't continue to work there. Just the fact that you have low social status should get you to worry. If you had better skill your social status would actually improve, at least to people that are in the same domain and value the particular skills needed there. Either you suffer repercussions due to your low social status or you suffer repercussions due to the factors that lead to your status.
- theelous3 3y ago
  I don't think you're really addressing the question with the hospital example nor the others. I could be the senior engineer of Amazing Inc., as well as a jacked high level MMA fighter and gracious altruist - beloved by all known to me - but if someone who knows the hospital admins walks in they are of course going to get some preferential treatment. This sort of "I know a guy" status that gives you a leg up on other people _regardless_ of their status doesn't really capture the essence here, I think. I had an absolutely massive post written but I think it might be easier to ask, what do you think a low status person is?

FrustratedMonky 3y ago

Exactly. Someone has to already be high status, or somehow independently wealthy, to even have the opportunity to ignore others. This ability to ignore others is an indicator of already being high status.

fnimick 3y ago
See also: Be Wary of Imitating High-Status People Who Can Afford to Countersignal https://www.robkhenderson.com/p/the-perils-of-imitating-high-status https://www.robkhenderson.com/p/the-perils-of-imitating-high...
s1artibartfast 3y ago
Nonsense. There is an abundance of people across the social status Spectrum that ignore others. Sometimes doing so comes with cost, but that doesn't mean it can't be done. Hello status person being rude to a high status person is not prohibited by the laws of physics.
- FrustratedMonky 3y ago
  > "comes with cost" The point is the cost. There is a cost. If you are hungry and living on the margin, then the cost could be great enough you will die, then that behavior gets weeded out. If you are already high status enough to not worry about the cost, then you have enough resources, and 'higher' status. Think you are still thinking about the modern age, can you get a minimum wage job and completely ignore everyone and still survive? Maybe. Is that living? It is only a recent development where there are plentiful resources where this is possible. There is some arguments that people have made, that the modern glut of resources does lead to behaviors like this, because there are no longer the consequences of dying.
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    I guess I don't understand what you are saying. anti social humans and animals exits, but the behavior comes at a cost. It seems like you were saying that it is impossible to ignore social hierarchy and status, which simply isn't true. >can you get a minimum wage job and completely ignore everyone and still survive? Maybe. Is that living? By definition, yes, living is living. There are lots of assholes in this world, and they don't drop dead from ignoring social hierarchy. >Someone has to already be high status, or somehow independently wealthy, to even have the opportunity to ignore others. This ability to ignore others is an indicator of already being high status By your definition, the bum yelling at people on the street must be high status. Terrorists and criminals must also have high status, because they too chose to ignore social power structures. These are extreme examples obviously. To read these comments, you think it would be impossible to go through life ignoring social status when in fact it's commonly done. You can make it pretty far in life by simply treating people with human decency, but not granting special defference to people with social power. Ignoring social hierarchy doesn't mean you have to punch your boss or a police officer in the face, it means treating them like you would any other person

s1artibartfast 3y ago

I don't think they are claiming that Liberation comes without cost or repercussions.