4 ms·

Damus to be removed from App Store as zaps could be used to sell digital content

35 points by samwillis 3y ago

smoldesu 3y ago
Well, sorry freedom lovers. Your phone isn't quite free enough to run this free code. > This would be a watershed moment: Watershed, yes. That's a funny way of putting it. Really, it's just too late for me to sympathize with these "alt-techbros" and whatnot. If you're willing to support a platform that restricts your ability to freely run software, you forfeit your right to resist when bad things happen. Now bad things are happening, and all of the sudden people want to meaningfully protest it. Who could have possibly seen this coming?
- vbezhenar 3y ago
  I don't think that many people would support that iPhone users have freedom over their phone. That said, for the time being, web apps still remain relatively free and every year new APIs bring them closer to the native ones. I don't believe that it'll last forever.
  - smoldesu 3y ago
    I mean, I want to believe you. The Web would be a great content delivery platform if we could agree on common ground. Honestly though, I've heard the whole "case for webapps" since the original iPhone launched. Apple's support of new features in Safari is painfully touch-and-go, and ultimately they have no incentive to give you a premium experience unless you pay. So now we're here, for better or worse.
    - throw4747477 3y ago
      No company has an incentive to give a premium experience unless people pay. That’s how businesses work.
      - smoldesu 3y ago
        Apple especially. They've firewalled developers from developing meaningful extensions to iOS, threaten to sue anyone who researches their systems, and will die clutching their App Store revenue rather than defer to the user's choice. Apple could easily be incentivized to improve the App Store and first-party software if they let developers compete with them. They don't, though. It's a deliberate, arbitrary decision made by a group of people who's primary motivation is to not disturb the profit margins. You can make of that what you will, but methinks their way of computing is due in for a reckoning. Someone had to blink.
        throw4747477 3y ago
        If any of this were even remotely true, Android would have blown past them easily. The reason people choose Apple products is because they want Apple’s curation. That’s it, pure and simple. Apple is profitable because customers value this. Those who don’t like Apple have always had plenty of options.
        frumper 3y ago
        I choose Apple because I have more success with their first party stuff generally working well. The App Store is filled with junk so if they're "pure and simple" reason for being better is that curation, they're doing a terrible job.
        throw4747477 3y ago
        The web is full of junk, and so is Android. I don’t expect Apple to eliminate apps I don’t like from the store, and I’d say Apple’s first party stuff is part of the curation. You might prefer the store was open, but that clearly isn’t a priority for you. But you refute the GP’s other point in any case - you think their first party stuff is great, which he seems to dispute.
        frumper 3y ago
- kjs3 3y ago
  I didn't think leopards would eat my face![1] [1] https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/leopards-eating-peoples-faces-party https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/leopards-eating-peoples-faces...
janandonly 3y ago
I don't know is this is a new policy, or the reviewer simply paid closer attention to this app? Or, when this Nostr client first came out it simply did not include a bitcoin/lightning/zap functionality, and therefore it wasn't stopped in the vetting process. In any case: anyone who wants to set up a new social media platform will have to do so in the form of a website or WASM native web app, and not in an App Store hosted app. This could be a big problem for some other platforms that I saw on HN today, like [NON.IO](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36296695 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36296695) and [ZSync](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36301337 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36301337) because they also filter the quality of posts by counting non-free upvotes.
- masukomi 3y ago
  requiring any payment to go through apple has been a policy since the beginning. It's been the center of countless public discussions and debates by indie devs, large companies, and politicians. Laws are being made around this. this is NOT NEW. The real question is why did Damus devs think it wouldn't apply to them when even Amazon can't get around it.
  - zwily 3y ago
    More specifically, it’s any payment for digital content. Payments for physical goods and services Apple doesn’t take a cut for.
    - wahnfrieden 3y ago
      any businesses with clever workarounds for replacing IAP digital sales with "1:1 services" that can bypass Apple payment? it seems underexplored for example in 1:1 service the agent provider might be able to also provide digital goods somehow I do know some tricks from experience but cannot share
      - throw4747477 3y ago
        Clever workarounds get you removed from the store.
graphe 3y ago
I remember using keybase and it having crypto payments with stellar lumens. Is damus popular?
- theshrike79 3y ago
  They actually had a raffle and gave away lumens to people in non-trivial amounts. I think I still have the bitcoin I bought with lumens in a wallet somewhere, might be worth 100-150€ nowadays. If you had a Keybase account and a lumen wallet, go check if it has a balance =)
djschnei 3y ago
The twitter app literally has the same tipping over bitcoin/lightning functionality built in. Also there is zero way to paywall content (or anything) within the Damus app. Literally just (the) tips. Apple and Will have a call this afternoon to discuss - hopefully logic prevails.

35 points by samwillis 3y ago

Well, sorry freedom lovers. Your phone isn't quite free enough to run this free code. > This would be a watershed moment: Watershed, yes. That's a funny way of putting it. Really, it's just too late for me to sympathize with these "alt-techbros" and whatnot. If you're willing to support a platform that restricts your ability to freely run software, you forfeit your right to resist when bad things happen. Now bad things are happening, and all of the sudden people want to meaningfully protest it. Who could have possibly seen this coming?

vbezhenar 3y ago
I don't think that many people would support that iPhone users have freedom over their phone. That said, for the time being, web apps still remain relatively free and every year new APIs bring them closer to the native ones. I don't believe that it'll last forever.
- smoldesu 3y ago
  I mean, I want to believe you. The Web would be a great content delivery platform if we could agree on common ground. Honestly though, I've heard the whole "case for webapps" since the original iPhone launched. Apple's support of new features in Safari is painfully touch-and-go, and ultimately they have no incentive to give you a premium experience unless you pay. So now we're here, for better or worse.
  - throw4747477 3y ago
    No company has an incentive to give a premium experience unless people pay. That’s how businesses work.
    - smoldesu 3y ago
      Apple especially. They've firewalled developers from developing meaningful extensions to iOS, threaten to sue anyone who researches their systems, and will die clutching their App Store revenue rather than defer to the user's choice. Apple could easily be incentivized to improve the App Store and first-party software if they let developers compete with them. They don't, though. It's a deliberate, arbitrary decision made by a group of people who's primary motivation is to not disturb the profit margins. You can make of that what you will, but methinks their way of computing is due in for a reckoning. Someone had to blink.
      - throw4747477 3y ago
        If any of this were even remotely true, Android would have blown past them easily. The reason people choose Apple products is because they want Apple’s curation. That’s it, pure and simple. Apple is profitable because customers value this. Those who don’t like Apple have always had plenty of options.
        frumper 3y ago
        I choose Apple because I have more success with their first party stuff generally working well. The App Store is filled with junk so if they're "pure and simple" reason for being better is that curation, they're doing a terrible job.
        throw4747477 3y ago
        The web is full of junk, and so is Android. I don’t expect Apple to eliminate apps I don’t like from the store, and I’d say Apple’s first party stuff is part of the curation. You might prefer the store was open, but that clearly isn’t a priority for you. But you refute the GP’s other point in any case - you think their first party stuff is great, which he seems to dispute.
        frumper 3y ago
kjs3 3y ago
I didn't think leopards would eat my face![1] [1] https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/leopards-eating-peoples-faces-party https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/leopards-eating-peoples-faces...

janandonly 3y ago

I don't know is this is a new policy, or the reviewer simply paid closer attention to this app? Or, when this Nostr client first came out it simply did not include a bitcoin/lightning/zap functionality, and therefore it wasn't stopped in the vetting process. In any case: anyone who wants to set up a new social media platform will have to do so in the form of a website or WASM native web app, and not in an App Store hosted app. This could be a big problem for some other platforms that I saw on HN today, like [NON.IO](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36296695 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36296695) and [ZSync](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36301337 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36301337) because they also filter the quality of posts by counting non-free upvotes.

masukomi 3y ago
requiring any payment to go through apple has been a policy since the beginning. It's been the center of countless public discussions and debates by indie devs, large companies, and politicians. Laws are being made around this. this is NOT NEW. The real question is why did Damus devs think it wouldn't apply to them when even Amazon can't get around it.
- zwily 3y ago
  More specifically, it’s any payment for digital content. Payments for physical goods and services Apple doesn’t take a cut for.
  - wahnfrieden 3y ago
    any businesses with clever workarounds for replacing IAP digital sales with "1:1 services" that can bypass Apple payment? it seems underexplored for example in 1:1 service the agent provider might be able to also provide digital goods somehow I do know some tricks from experience but cannot share
    - throw4747477 3y ago
      Clever workarounds get you removed from the store.

graphe 3y ago

I remember using keybase and it having crypto payments with stellar lumens. Is damus popular?

theshrike79 3y ago
They actually had a raffle and gave away lumens to people in non-trivial amounts. I think I still have the bitcoin I bought with lumens in a wallet somewhere, might be worth 100-150€ nowadays. If you had a Keybase account and a lumen wallet, go check if it has a balance =)

djschnei 3y ago

The twitter app literally has the same tipping over bitcoin/lightning functionality built in. Also there is zero way to paywall content (or anything) within the Damus app. Literally just (the) tips. Apple and Will have a call this afternoon to discuss - hopefully logic prevails.