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Real PR mastery would be to issue a modification to the warranty to include this condition within X years of owning the vehicle and be done with it. If it reall

Real PR mastery would be to issue a modification to the warranty to include this condition within X years of owning the vehicle and be done with it. If it really is rare, it will cost them a lot less to cover it than the PR costs of fighting bad press every time it pops up.

cuu508 15y ago
Such condition would be tempting to abuse. Warranty expires in 6 months--drive to 0%, wait a month and call dealer. Instead manufacturer could make it very clear in on webpages, in owner manuals, PR materials etc. the importance of keeping batteries charged. Make it common knowledge. Then they would be morally right to treat bricked batteries same as running with no oil or with flat tires.
- droithomme 15y ago
  I never heard of a battery warranty that wasn't prorated over the life of the battery. You know, if it fails 1 month before the end of a 5 year warranty, you get a credit for 1/60 the replacement value, often redeemable only as a credit towards purchase of a new battery of the same brand from an authorized dealer. I am sure you have heard of prorated battery warranties and are familiar with them, aren't you? Granted that, why would you make such an intentionally misleading post suggesting that warranties are prone to abuse when this is a solved problem?
  - nknight 15y ago
    > I am sure you have heard of prorated battery warranties and are familiar with them, aren't you? I'm not. I've never heard of any such thing. Perhaps it is you being misleading?
    - veyron 15y ago
      It's actually more common with tires, but there are battery manufacturers like Interstate that give prorated battery warranties (of course there are all kinds of stipulations on the warranty protecting them from negligence claims)
      - droithomme 15y ago
        Hm, interesting. Anyone who has owned a car has had to replace the battery at some point and they all have warranties and all car battery warranties are pro-rated. (Maybe there is some exception, I've never seen it.) Same for lawn and garden batteries for driving mowers. It's possible some of the overseas readers here have never owned a car though and just haven't ever needed to buy a car battery and weren't familiar with this.
        learc83 15y ago
        I've always just bought new batteries. They weren't expensive enough to bother with any redeeming a prorated warranty. If a battery goes out after several years, how much I going to get anyway? $10? There are definitely car owners who have never dealt with battery warranties.
        droithomme 15y ago
        Here's a photo of a typical car battery that is sold in the US, in fact this is one of the top brands, Sears DieHard. http://s.shld.net/is/image/Sears/02833023000-2 http://s.shld.net/is/image/Sears/02833023000-2 Sears has a nationwide network of car maintenance shops called Sears Auto Center that has been quite popular for tire, battery, and alignment work for decades. http://www.sears.com/automotive-services/c-1023947 http://www.sears.com/automotive-services/c-1023947 Information about its warranty are printed in large letters on the side. It would be quite difficult to purchase this battery without understanding it has a warranty. This is not atypical. It is extremely common for batteries to have such information printed legibly on the side. Furthermore, car batteries typically have a punch out on the top designating the month and year of purchase. These are punched out at time of purchase and enable the warranty can be honored even in the event of losing one's receipt. Battery displays in stores nearly always contain comparative information about the warranty periods, with premium batteries highlighted for having longer warranty periods. I find it astonishing that people can buy batteries and never notice any of this, and some of these people are here claiming that owners whose Teslas become bricked are at fault because the manual obliquely suggests in an obscure section that bricking is possible, a possibility that is at the same time denied by the same group.
  - cuu508 15y ago
    Hadn't heard of prorated battery warranties, but yes, makes sense. This fixes intentional abuse. But I imagine with free brick replacement, people would more easily and frequently forget to keep the battery charged. Without the risk of $40K, brick rate would probably go up.
    - vannevar 15y ago
      I imagine with free brick replacement, people would more easily and frequently forget to keep the battery charged. It wouldn't really be free; the car would be out of service for some time. And Tesla could charge some kind of nominal-but-not-insignificant service fee. I doubt that the bricking rate would be sensitive to the actual dollar cost: as Tesla points out, it isn't that easy to do. Just being careless isn't sufficient, there would have to be other circumstances like a long trip away from the car where the cost of repair wouldn't have any impact.
jm4 15y ago
I disagree. You buy a car that only needs maintenance once a year, but you have to plug it in at least once every few weeks. They are willing to go well above and beyond what most would expect in order to remind you of that. I think that's a pretty good deal. Responsible owners do not let the battery charge reach zero. The consequences are serious enough that owners with unusual usage patterns that make this difficult will go out of their way to make sure it doesn't happen. There is a strong negative financial incentive for owners to do a simple thing like plugging in the car. Modifying the warranty means Tesla accepts financial accountability for owners' (in)actions that are beyond Tesla's control. That's a bad deal for Tesla. It could mean financial ruin if there are too many irresponsible owners. This thing is so blown out of proportion. When I first read the blog article I was thinking it was pretty bad. Once I had some time to think about it I realized there isn't anything unreasonable about this except the price of a new battery, but that's the cost of being an early adopter. If you let a high end sports car sit in a garage for months with a tank full of gas and then go drive it fast you are going to wreck it. It's going to be expensive to fix. That's if you can even get it to start in the first place. A responsible owner starts the car every couple weeks or has someone else do it while they are out of town. What's the difference in effort between that and plugging in a Tesla? The only difference with the Tesla is the cost of the repair. I think this is a case of some people being ignorant of their responsibilities as owners and failing to properly maintain their cars.
- droithomme 15y ago
  I screwed up once and my car ran out of gas. Had to walk 3 miles. Didn't cost $40,000 to fix.
  - glomph 15y ago
    That isn't the same as leaving your car for weeks without doing any upkeep.
  - jodrellblank 15y ago
    Discharging a Li-ion battery completely chemically changes it so it can't be recharged and can set on fire if you try. And they lose charge even if you shutdown all circuitry and just let them sit. To fix this problem you need your car in a garage, a replacement pack of 6000 high-tech niche market batteries shipped from wherever they are made, mechanics skilled on a niche sportscar, and responsible disposal of of the old battery pack. To 'fix' your problem, you need to pour easily available cheap liquid into an empty container. There's no comparison and it's not a Tesla design flaw, it's a battery technology limitation which applies to other li-ion cars, laptops, etc. too, if left long enough to drain past the controller reporting 'empty'.

cuu508 15y ago

Such condition would be tempting to abuse. Warranty expires in 6 months--drive to 0%, wait a month and call dealer. Instead manufacturer could make it very clear in on webpages, in owner manuals, PR materials etc. the importance of keeping batteries charged. Make it common knowledge. Then they would be morally right to treat bricked batteries same as running with no oil or with flat tires.

droithomme 15y ago
I never heard of a battery warranty that wasn't prorated over the life of the battery. You know, if it fails 1 month before the end of a 5 year warranty, you get a credit for 1/60 the replacement value, often redeemable only as a credit towards purchase of a new battery of the same brand from an authorized dealer. I am sure you have heard of prorated battery warranties and are familiar with them, aren't you? Granted that, why would you make such an intentionally misleading post suggesting that warranties are prone to abuse when this is a solved problem?
- nknight 15y ago
  > I am sure you have heard of prorated battery warranties and are familiar with them, aren't you? I'm not. I've never heard of any such thing. Perhaps it is you being misleading?
  - veyron 15y ago
    It's actually more common with tires, but there are battery manufacturers like Interstate that give prorated battery warranties (of course there are all kinds of stipulations on the warranty protecting them from negligence claims)
    - droithomme 15y ago
      Hm, interesting. Anyone who has owned a car has had to replace the battery at some point and they all have warranties and all car battery warranties are pro-rated. (Maybe there is some exception, I've never seen it.) Same for lawn and garden batteries for driving mowers. It's possible some of the overseas readers here have never owned a car though and just haven't ever needed to buy a car battery and weren't familiar with this.
      - learc83 15y ago
        I've always just bought new batteries. They weren't expensive enough to bother with any redeeming a prorated warranty. If a battery goes out after several years, how much I going to get anyway? $10? There are definitely car owners who have never dealt with battery warranties.
        droithomme 15y ago
        Here's a photo of a typical car battery that is sold in the US, in fact this is one of the top brands, Sears DieHard. http://s.shld.net/is/image/Sears/02833023000-2 http://s.shld.net/is/image/Sears/02833023000-2 Sears has a nationwide network of car maintenance shops called Sears Auto Center that has been quite popular for tire, battery, and alignment work for decades. http://www.sears.com/automotive-services/c-1023947 http://www.sears.com/automotive-services/c-1023947 Information about its warranty are printed in large letters on the side. It would be quite difficult to purchase this battery without understanding it has a warranty. This is not atypical. It is extremely common for batteries to have such information printed legibly on the side. Furthermore, car batteries typically have a punch out on the top designating the month and year of purchase. These are punched out at time of purchase and enable the warranty can be honored even in the event of losing one's receipt. Battery displays in stores nearly always contain comparative information about the warranty periods, with premium batteries highlighted for having longer warranty periods. I find it astonishing that people can buy batteries and never notice any of this, and some of these people are here claiming that owners whose Teslas become bricked are at fault because the manual obliquely suggests in an obscure section that bricking is possible, a possibility that is at the same time denied by the same group.
- cuu508 15y ago
  Hadn't heard of prorated battery warranties, but yes, makes sense. This fixes intentional abuse. But I imagine with free brick replacement, people would more easily and frequently forget to keep the battery charged. Without the risk of $40K, brick rate would probably go up.
  - vannevar 15y ago
    I imagine with free brick replacement, people would more easily and frequently forget to keep the battery charged. It wouldn't really be free; the car would be out of service for some time. And Tesla could charge some kind of nominal-but-not-insignificant service fee. I doubt that the bricking rate would be sensitive to the actual dollar cost: as Tesla points out, it isn't that easy to do. Just being careless isn't sufficient, there would have to be other circumstances like a long trip away from the car where the cost of repair wouldn't have any impact.

jm4 15y ago

I disagree. You buy a car that only needs maintenance once a year, but you have to plug it in at least once every few weeks. They are willing to go well above and beyond what most would expect in order to remind you of that. I think that's a pretty good deal. Responsible owners do not let the battery charge reach zero. The consequences are serious enough that owners with unusual usage patterns that make this difficult will go out of their way to make sure it doesn't happen. There is a strong negative financial incentive for owners to do a simple thing like plugging in the car. Modifying the warranty means Tesla accepts financial accountability for owners' (in)actions that are beyond Tesla's control. That's a bad deal for Tesla. It could mean financial ruin if there are too many irresponsible owners. This thing is so blown out of proportion. When I first read the blog article I was thinking it was pretty bad. Once I had some time to think about it I realized there isn't anything unreasonable about this except the price of a new battery, but that's the cost of being an early adopter. If you let a high end sports car sit in a garage for months with a tank full of gas and then go drive it fast you are going to wreck it. It's going to be expensive to fix. That's if you can even get it to start in the first place. A responsible owner starts the car every couple weeks or has someone else do it while they are out of town. What's the difference in effort between that and plugging in a Tesla? The only difference with the Tesla is the cost of the repair. I think this is a case of some people being ignorant of their responsibilities as owners and failing to properly maintain their cars.

droithomme 15y ago
I screwed up once and my car ran out of gas. Had to walk 3 miles. Didn't cost $40,000 to fix.
- glomph 15y ago
  That isn't the same as leaving your car for weeks without doing any upkeep.
- jodrellblank 15y ago
  Discharging a Li-ion battery completely chemically changes it so it can't be recharged and can set on fire if you try. And they lose charge even if you shutdown all circuitry and just let them sit. To fix this problem you need your car in a garage, a replacement pack of 6000 high-tech niche market batteries shipped from wherever they are made, mechanics skilled on a niche sportscar, and responsible disposal of of the old battery pack. To 'fix' your problem, you need to pour easily available cheap liquid into an empty container. There's no comparison and it's not a Tesla design flaw, it's a battery technology limitation which applies to other li-ion cars, laptops, etc. too, if left long enough to drain past the controller reporting 'empty'.